§ 2.36 p.m.
§ LORD ELTONMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether it is true, as stated in the Press, that a large number, estimated at 20,000, of disqualified motorists are driving on the roads; and, if so, what steps they propose to take to put an end to this defiance of the law and menace to other road-users.]
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, there were 9,114 prosecutions in 1965 for driving while disqualified. Her Majesty's Government have no evidence to support the estimate of 20,000 disqualified motorists driving on the road. My right honourable friend the Minister of Transport indicated in another place on February 20 that she and the Home Secretary were examining the measures needed to check evasions of disqualification.
§ LORD ELTONMy Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for that Answer, may I ask if he knows whether it is proposed to extend to police forces in the country as a whole the powers which I believe are already possessed by the police within the Metropolitan area, of arresting without warrant a driver they know to be disqualified? May I further ask him whether he will always bear in mind that Parliament has spent many hours discussing appropriate penalties for dangerous driving, and always on the assumption that disqualification would be a major deterrent—an assumption which now seems to be in process of being stultified?
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, there certainly has been an increase in the number of prosecutions for this type of offence. It is still not clear whether this is basically due to an increase in the number of offences or whether it is due to greater success on the part of the police in bringing prosecutions. In regard to the first part of the noble Lord's supplementary questions about power of arrest, may I say that the noble Lord will be aware that under the Road Traffic Acts there is no specific power of arrest without warrant. That has been one of the major difficulties of the police in combating this particular offence, or suspected offence. It is one of the points to which my right honourable friend the Home Secretary is now giving urgent consideration.
§ LORD MOLSONMy Lords, if the Government are aware of the absence of a power of arrest even when a police constable knows that the driver has been disqualified, why is it that there is no provision in regard to this matter in the Road Safety Bill which is now before this House?
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, at the present moment the difficulty experienced by the police stems from the fact that a driver is not required by law to carry a licence. It is the absence of the licence that raises the difficulty for the police in making an arrest if they have a suspicion. In fact, the circumstance needs to be checked, and it is only when it is found that the person has been disqualified that action can be taken.
With regard to the Road Safety Bill, the noble Lord will recollect that this Bill falls into two parts: one concerning drink and driving, and the other concerning the provisions for licensing and other safety factors for vehicles. If the noble Lord wishes to raise this particular point in debate it is open to him to do so when the Bill is in Committee, which will be immediately after Easter. However, I would say to the noble Lord that there is some difficulty in enlarging a Bill by bringing in a provision which does not clearly come within the Title. It will certainly be an opportunity when this House could usefully discuss the matter.
§ LORD MOLSONMy Lords, in view of the fact that at the present time a police constable has power to arrest on the spot a driver whom he suspects of 1081 being under the influence of drink when driving the car, surely there is no great difficulty in extending that power to the case of a driver who is known at that time to be disqualified from driving. With regard to the second part of the noble Lord's reply, may I ask whether he is aware that I have every intention of putting down an Amendment to the Road Safety Bill which will enable the Government, if they accept it, to deal with what he admits to be one of the great difficulties in this matter?
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, I shall take careful note of the noble Lord's Amendment and certainly see that my right honourable friend gives it the consideration that is due to it.
§ LORD ELTONMy Lords, would the noble Lord agree that there is a good deal of evidence of a fairly close connection between persons who commit repeated offences on the roads and the criminal classes in general, and would not a better enforcement of disqualification probably be an important contribution in the war against crime?
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, at the moment I am speaking for the Ministry of Transport. The noble Lord, Lord Elton, is going into a province which no doubt my noble friend Lord Stonham, who I am glad to see back in the building this afternoon, will be more adequately equipped to answer. But I will certainly take note of the point raised by the noble Lord.