HL Deb 19 June 1967 vol 283 cc1160-2
LORD OAKSHOTT

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will state the present position regarding the status of Mr. Simbule, High Commissioner-designate for Zambia.]

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, as was stated by my honourable friend in another place on May 9, on receipt of Press reports of Mr. Simbule's remarks in Dar es Salaam Her Majesty's Government sought clarification from the Zambian Government. We are still in communication with the Zambian Government but it is hoped that it will be possible to make a further statement in the near future.

LORD OAKSHOTT

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his reply. Is it not unprecedented that someone in Mr. Simbule's position should make remarks about the country to which he is to be accredited?

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, if I take the first part of the question, I think it would certainly be true to say that the remarks were unprecedented. I think also, however, we should be well advised to keep them in proportion, and there is a case for saying that we should treat them more with sorrow than with anger.

LORD OAKSHOTT

My Lords, that one accepts; but is it not the case that since Mr. Simbule made these remarks about this country they have been emphasised and rubbed in by his own Foreign Secretary, Mr. Kapwepwe? Will the noble Lord recognise that there are a great many people in this country, whatever their political views may be, who regard it as wholly unacceptable that someone in this position should make remarks about this country and about this Government and still expect to receive high diplomatic status?

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, I quite agree that the remarks were unfortunate, and they have been strongly deprecated by Her Majesty's Government to the Government of Zambia. What further action is to be taken? Mr. Simbule has not been recognised as yet, as is known, and further action has yet to be decided.

BARONESS HORSBRUGH

My Lords, can the noble Lord tell us, when Her Majesty's Government sought clarification, what clarification they got?

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, we were informed that the remarks were made in jest and that Mr. Simbule himself had a high regard, strangely enough, for this country. What he has subsequently said bears out the interpretation that he said what he said, but he did not really mean what he said.

LORD BROCKWAY

My Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether Zambia is not under great strain as a result of the economic sanctions imposed on Rhodesia, and whether it is not much more important to retain good relations with Zambia in the Commonwealth than to pay too much attention to remarks of this kind?

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, what the noble Lord says bears out my appeal that a matter of this kind should be kept in proportion. I must say that I myself feel it is a pity that someone setting out to represent a country in the United Kingdom should start off with remarks of this kind, especially when, after all, what they are really complaining about is that this bulldog is not prepared to bite simply because they tell us to do so.

LORD MANCROFT

My Lords, if Mr. Simbule makes remarks like this in jest, what sort of remarks is he likely to make when he is serious?

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, no doubt if Mr. Simbule remains here much longer and hears the sophisticated comments made in your Lordships' House he will be able to adjust his own manner of speaking accordingly.