§ 3.6 p.m.
§ LORD ALLERTONMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether the accident rate on the A.1 road between approximately the end of the Stamford By-pass and Colsterworth has increased or diminished since off-set double white lines have been in use.]
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, the annual rate of accidents on the section of the A.1 trunk road between Stamford By-pass and Colsterworth increased by 12 per cent. during the experiment with these lines. When allowance is made for increases in traffic, accidents were 6 per cent. higher than might have been expected had the experimental lines not been put down.
§ LORD ALLERTONMy Lords, in thanking the noble Lord for that reply, may I ask him whether it is not the case that the biggest increase in the number of accidents occurred when the markings were first laid down, and that since then accidents have tended to decrease, both in numbers and severity, despite the 5 per cent. increase in the volume of traffic? Also, would he agree that, although some publicity was given to the system when it was first put into operation, most of us have had to learn from experience how to use these lines?
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, these experiments have been continuing since 1962, and we have found that in all the experimental areas there has been an increase of about 44 per cent. in the number of accidents since these lines were put down. The increase in the particular stretch to which the noble Lord has 1022 drawn our attention was in fact the lowest. I believe that the public have now had an opportunity to see whether this system gives increased safety on the roads, and it is the view of my right honourable friend and those who advise her in this matter that these lines do not help—in fact they increase the possibilities of accidents occurring—and therefore should be withdrawn.
§ LORD DERWENTMy Lords, as I use this particular stretch of road perhaps a dozen times a month, may I ask whether it is contemplated removing these markings this summer? If so, is it not unwise, when the traffic is heaviest? Also, is it not the case that within a year there will be a dual carriageway on this stretch of road, and therefore from the point of view of cost any alteration might well wait until the dual carriageway is put down?
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, I have no information before me as to when this dual carriageway will be open, nor when the completion of the work in regard to these particular lines is scheduled to take place, but I gather that work is in progress on other stretches of the road.
§ LORD DERWENTMy Lords, will the noble Lord draw the attention of the Minister of Transport to this question of holiday traffic, because if work is going on along that road now that we are in full summer it will make extraordinary difficulties for traffic generally.
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, I certainly will.
§ LORD AMULREEMy Lords, can the noble Lord say what the experience has been in foreign countries where the double white line has been in use for a very long time? Has the accident rate gone up?
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, we are not suggesting the removal of the double white line. What we are removing is what is called the off-set—that is, where there is a three-lane road and there is a double line on one of the lanes.
§ LORD WAKEFIELD OF KENDALMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether, in the experiments which have been carried out since 1962 with these off-set double white lines, traffic cones—more commonly known among the 1023 police as "ice creams"—have been used in any way to prevent accidents and to make people observe more closely than perhaps they otherwise would, the use of these double white lines?
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, as I understand it the danger of the system arises when one of the off-set lines is switched to the other side of the road. In other words, you have traffic moving fast in what is a double lane, and going through, and you have traffic coming through on the other side on a fast lane, and a collision occurs. I think this is where the dangers of the system have arisen. It is not a question of going from one lane into another.
§ LORD WAKEFIELD OF KENDALMy Lords, could not these cones be used to prevent those accidents? Has that been tried? If it has not been tried so far, could it be tried?
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, my right honourable friend has decided that this system should be abolished. On the question of cones, I think there are cases where cones are useful, but I think it is right to say that when the weather is bad and visibility is poor these cones are not always particularly noticeable.
§ LORD POPPLEWELLMy Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether he is aware how surprised many of us are to hear of this increased accident rate in connection with the off-set white line areas? In view of what my noble friend has said can he say whether any particular instructions are being given to the police, or requests made to various police forces, to ascertan whether there has been any increase in the number of prosecutions for dangerous driving, or anything of that description?
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, I have a great deal of information, but that is one piece I have not with me.
§ LORD SOMERSMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether the changeover is immediate, or whether it is a gradual curve over to the other side, and also whether there is any previous warning to the motorist that there is going to be a change of off-set?
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, we have some 23 miles of these lines, so clearly we shall not be able to remove them overnight. It will be a continuing process and will be done as soon as possible, and certainly notification will be made on the roads for the benefit of the motorist.
§ LORD SOMERSMy Lords, the noble Lord has misunderstood me. I am referring to the present system. When you have an off-set line and it changes to the other side, does it change gradually with a curve, or is it an immediate changeover, and is there a previous warning?
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, that is one of the more difficult questions. If the noble Lord will see me outside I will draw him a diagram. It would be far better than trying to give a description here.
§ VISCOUNT BRENTFORDMy Lords, would the noble Lord accept that it is generally the view of motorists that these off-set lines have been a source of great danger, and that their removal will be greatly welcomed?
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, the noble Lord is quite right. Perhaps, in view of the great interest in this and other matters, we might have a debate upon it in the new Session.
§ LORD PARGITERMy Lords, may I ask whether or not, where there is now three-lane traffic, it will revert to two-lane traffic, particularly on hills?
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, those systems are not in any way affected in this changeover.