HL Deb 13 June 1967 vol 283 cc808-11

2.52 p.m.

Order of the Day for the Third Reading read.

LORD SORENSEN

My Lords, I beg to move that this Bill be now read a third time.

Moved, That the Bill be now read 3a,—(Lord Sorensen.)

On Question, Bill read 3a, with the Amendments.

Clause 5 [Prohibition of acts relating to matter broadcast from ships, aircraft, &c.]:

LORD DRUMALBYN moved, in subsection (3), to leave out paragraph (f), and to insert: (f) publishing the times or other details of any broadcasts which are to be so made, or (otherwise than by publishing such details) publishing an advertisement of matter calculated to promote, directly or indirectly, the interests of a business whose activities consist in or include the operation of a station from which broadcasts are or are to be so made.

The noble Lord said: My Lords, I beg to move the Amendment standing in the name of my noble friend and myself. I understand that the Government intend to accept this Amendment, and I rise to make certain that we are in agreement on what it means. This Amendment is an attempt to clarify Clause 5(3)(f) in consequence of uncertainty expressed as to the intention of the paragraph. The Amendment therefore makes it quite clear that it will be an offence to publish the times and other details of pirate broadcasts, whether or not publication is done by an advertisement. It goes on to make it an offence to publish an advertisement of matter calculated to promote, directly or indirectly, the interests of a business whose activities consist in or include the operation of a station from which broadcasts are or are to be so made.

In my view, this would meet the objections made to the present wording, that the existing and long-established distinction between advertisements on the one hand, and editorial matter or news on the other, to which the Press attach great importance, should be kept clear, and that, while the mere publication of times and contents of programmes will be an offence, mere publication of matter calculated to promote the interests of private pirate broadcasting stations will not.

Our initial view was that it would be desirable to define what Parliament meant by "advertisement" for the purposes of the Bill. The Government resisted that, and therefore this Amendment falls back on a form of words which makes it clear that whatever "advertisement" means in this Bill, it does not mean mere publication. I suggested to the Postmaster General that the paragraph might be strengthened and clarified if the word "likely" were substituted for the word "calculated". Noble Lords will remember that we had a long discussion in Committee on Protection of Consumers' (Trade Descriptions) Bill on the meaning of the word "calculated". In the end your Lordships decided, on a Division on February 21, 1966, to substitute the word "likely", and that was done with the concurrence even of some noble Lords on the Government side. However, that has not become law.

The general argument then was that if it was not meant that intention should be proved, then the word "calculated" was misleading to the ordinary person and should be replaced by the word "likely". I have been in touch with the Postmaster General's Department and I have received a letter from that Department in which one of the reasons given for not proposing such an Amendment is stated as follows: It could have the effect of allowing prosecutions to be brought in circumstances where there was no deliberate intention on the part of the persons who devised the advertisement to produce the effect of promoting the interests of the business ".

I am more than content with this, as it establishes that if the Government accept this Amendment, as I hope they will, it will imply—and I hope it will be the case—that they will interpret the word "calculated" in its proper sense of "designed", and will not bring prosecu tions except where they are satisfied that there was a deliberate intention on the part of the person designing the advertisement to promote the interests of the pirate station. This, of course, will not relieve the person publishing the advertisement of the responsibility for ensuring that the person who designed it had no such intention. Of course, this places a much greater statutory onus on the Press—if it is a question of Press publication—than the Press are normally expected to bear, and indeed a greater responsibility than the one which was to have been laid upon it in the Protection of Consumers' (Trade Descriptions) Bill.

This Amendment certainly seems to be a great improvement on the present text. I hope that what I have said will commend itself to the Government, and that they will be able to accept the spirit as well as the words of the Amendment in the way that I have indicated. I beg to move.

Amendment moved—

Page 5, line 32, leave out paragraph (f) and insert the said new paragraph.—(Lord Drumalbyn.)

LORD SORENSEN

My Lords, I am much obliged to the noble Lord, Lord Drumalbyn, for his observations. As he probably knows, consultations were held on this matter with the noble Viscount, Lord Colville of Culross, and as far as my memory goes he was entirely satisfied with the words which are now embodied in this Amendment. I can assure the noble Lord that the Government accept the interpretation that he has placed upon these words; that there is no desire whatever, as we have said before, to impose any restriction on the Press in regard to legitimate observations or comment, and I hope that he is satisfied on that score, too. Therefore, the Government accept this Amendment.

May I also say that I am most grateful, particularly to the noble Viscount, Lord Colville of Culross, for his efforts, both in seeking to show the necessity for being more specific on the point covered by the Amendment, and also in helping to formulate an Amendment to the Bill without prejudicing the intention of the clause. In those circumstances, I hope most earnestly that this Amendment will be accepted.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD SORENSEN

My Lords, I beg to move that the Bill do now pass.

Moved, That the Bill do now pass.—(Lord Sorensen.)

On Question, Bill passed, and returned to the Commons.