§ 3.5 p.m.
§ LORD BARNBYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government how many emergent countries which since the grant of independence have later departed from true Constitutional Government are still in receipt of any subvention or grants from the United Kingdom.]
§ THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY FOR COMMONWEALTH AFFAIRS (LORD BESWICK)My Lords, if the noble Lord will be good enough to let me know more precisely which countries he has in mind I will endeavour to let him have all relevant information.
§ LORD BARNBYMy Lords, is the noble Lord, Lord Beswick, able to give any indication whether the designation of emergent countries is in any way affected by the continuance or the reverse of Constitutional Government? Further, can he give any separate categorisation of those immediate emergent countries, such as Sierra Leone, Nigeria or Tanzania, which have either broken off diplomatic relations with the United Kingdom or are presumably in a state of rebellion against Her Majesty's Government?
§ LORD BESWICKMy Lords, I do not think that any useful purpose can be served by trying to categorise countries according to those which, in the noble Lord's opinion, are constitutionally governed and those which are not. Because a country breaks off its relationship with this country, it does not necessarily mean 518 that it is not under a constitutional form of government.
§ LORD BARNBYMy Lords, since the amount referred to is very large—a total figure of some £80 million was recently given—has not the time come when we should reconsider the generosity of these grants to countries which are no longer constitutionally governed?
§ LORD BESWICKMy Lords, before any contribution is made to any country all factors are taken into account. It is not necessarily a factor against the giving of aid that its form of government has changed.
LORD SALTOUNMy Lords, may I ask Her Majesty's Government this question? Are they aware that the common people of Portugal look upon our payments to Zambia with an unfavourable eye because they say that these funds are used—or release other funds to be used—for arming infiltrators who cross the Portuguese border and commit rape, robbery and arson in unprotected places against the persons of our oldest ally? Would it not be worth while for Her Majesty's Government to withhold contributions to Zambia until they are satisfied that that Government is doing everything in its power to prevent that kind of thing from happening?
§ LORD BESWICKMy Lords, as I understand it, many factors are taken into account before a decision is taken as to the amount of economic aid given to any country. I am not aware, however, whether the opinion of Portugal is among those factors.
§ LORD BLYTONMy Lords, I agree with giving aid to all the former Colonies, in the context of the fact that we gave them independence, but does not my noble friend think that, with the pressure to join the Common Market, the situation now is that we are attacking the independent nations when they have teething troubles, rather than helping them to make a multiracial society within the Commonwealth?
§ LORD BESWICKMy Lords, I quite agree with what I understand my noble friend to be saying; namely, that some of these countries, to which certain noble Lords take exception, are going through the kind of difficulties which we in this 519 country went through hundreds of years ago.
LORD SALTOUNMy Lords, may I ask whether the noble Lord's answer to me means that Her Majesty's Government are indifferent to the kind of thing about which I have complained?
§ LORD BESWICKMy Lords, perhaps the noble Lord, Lord Saltoun, would be good enough to read in the OFFICIAL REPORT what I actually said.
§ LORD MITCHISONMy Lords, can my noble friend say whether a Constitutional Government includes the House of Lords?
§ LORD BESWICKMy Lords, I am not certain about that, but I do know that they are not among the recipients of economic aid.