HL Deb 26 July 1967 vol 285 cc972-4

4.15 p.m.

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, with permission, I should like to repeat a statement made in another place on the European airbus project. Agreement was reached to proceed immediately with the first stage of the joint development of a European short-medium range airbus. A Memorandum of Understanding, the principles of which were agreed, will be signed by September 15, 1967. I am happy to say that the aircraft will be powered by Rolls Royce engines, and work on them will be undertaken jointly by Rolls Royce, S.N.E.C.M.A. in France and M.A.N. in Germany. The aircraft will be designed jointly by Sud Aviation, Hawker Siddeley Aviation and the Arbeitsgemeinchaft Airbus. Sud Aviation will direct the airframe work and Rolls Royce will direct the engine work. A joint company will be formed to promote sales of the aircraft. It was agreed that the full development stage—in about 12 months' time—should proceed, provided that certain conditions, including national airline commitments which will finally establish the viability of the project, are met.

EARL JELLICOE

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for repeating the Statement, but I must say that there is rather less in it than we could all read this morning over breakfast in the newspapers. I strongly favour collaboration with Europe in advanced technological projects of this nature, but we all know the difficulties, and therefore we must be absolutely certain at the outset that the particular project is viable, especially if it is a very costly one. I hope that the noble Lord can give us this assurance. And can he tell us something about the size of the prospective market for this aircraft? Can he tell us what the present estimate of the research development costs is and how those costs are to be split between the three partners? Finally, can he tell us that the national airlines of the three countries concerned really want, and will take, a substantial number of the aircraft?

LORD BESWICK

Yes, my Lords, the market is indeed a valuable one. It is estimated that, as between the three participating countries, the aircraft required will be of the order of 90 to 100, with a further 200 in other countries outside the United States and the Communist bloc, giving a total of some 300 which, with spares, would mean a value of work approaching £2,400 million, of which between £800 million and £900 million would be this country's share for work carried out. The cost will be shared as between the airframe and the engine in different proportions. In the case of the engine we should accept 75 per cent., France 12½ per cent. and Germany 12½ per cent. In the case of the airframe the figures are: United Kingdom 37½ per cent., France 37½ per cent. and Germany 25 per cent. Regarding engine launching costs, it is estimated that these will be of the order of £60 million, and the total development and tooling costs of the airframe will be £130 million.

EARL JELLICOE

My Lords, can the noble Lord tell us anything about whether the airlines really will take this aircraft in this country?

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, obviously I cannot as yet, and, equally obviously, it would be unfair to ask them to make a definite commitment until the first stage has been completed; because until the first stage is completed the airlines are not in a position to say whether it fulfils their requirements.

EARL AMHERST

My Lords, may I ask whether the noble Lord has any indication when the airbus will be available for commercial operation, if there is any estimate about that? Further, can he confirm a report recently put in the papers that as B.E.A. will not be able to purchase the aircraft it wishes in the interim, but will have to wait for the delivery of the airbus, it is to receive compensation for any losses which may accrue?

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, it is expected that the first stage will be completed within twelve months. After that it will be a matter of deciding whether to go forward, and then we can make another estimate as to the time scale. I can give the noble Lord no answer about the possibility of subsidising B.E.A., nor indeed do I think it would be fruitful to discuss this matter until we decide exactly what kind of machine is contemplated and what the operating economics would be.

LORD CONESFORD

My Lords, have the Government any knowledge of how much noise this aeroplane will make?

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, I can assure the noble Lord that this plane is not expected to go through the sound barrier. It is expected, with these Rolls Royce engines, to have a low level of noise. The general aim of the airbus project is to provide a more economical vehicle for passengers who otherwise would probably not be able to travel by air.

LORD CONESFORD

My Lords, is the Minister aware that the aeroplanes which are the greatest nuisance at the moment over South-West London also do not break the sound barrier?