§ 3.9 p.m.
§ LORD NUGENT OF GUILDFORDMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what plans are in hand to introduce systems of central control and phasing for the traffic lights on the main traffic arteries into London; and when it is intended to bring them into action.]
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, we plan to introduce an experiment on these lines shortly in West London. The Greater London Council is associated with the West London experiment, and it is already considering, as traffic authority, the possibilities for extension of computer control in London.
§ LORD NUGENT OF GUILDFORDMy Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his encouraging answer to my Question. May I ask him whether he is aware that this method of improving traffic flow on arterial routes, by favouring the arterial route at the expense of the cross-routes, is common practice in American cities and undoubtedly helps to ease congestion and improve general traffic flow? While I welcome the introduction which the noble Lord indicated, is he aware that it really is urgent to introduce this system on all the arterial routes into London, and indeed into other cities, too? Can he say whether there is any prospect of that?
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, I am well aware that this system of control has been in use in the United States for some time. On the other hand, we have not exactly been lagging behind in terms of linking of lights, which we have been doing for some thirty years. But there are differences in traffic problems from one country to another and from one city to another. I agree with the noble Lord that if this system, as I have had it explained to me, works fully, then it will be of very great assistance in London; it will certainly have a stimulus on its development in London. The Greater London Council, as the traffic authority, is very anxious to see an extension of this system. There is a similar scheme in Glasgow in which the Road Research Laboratory have taken a very active part. We are awaiting with great interest the outcome of both the Glasgow scheme and the London scheme before deciding about future development.
§ LORD NUGENT OF GUILDFORDMy Lords, may I thank the noble Lord for the valuable news that there is a similar scheme in Glasgow. Is he aware that the thought behind this Question is that in the main we shall have to make do with the streets we have now, and that we therefore want to get the maximum traffic flow out of them? Is he further aware that this is one of the ways in which we can get improved traffic movement in existing streets? Therefore it is very much to be encouraged, not only in London but other big cities as well.
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, I do not share the view of the noble Lord that we shall have to make do with the existing streets of London. It may be that the noble Lord and I will not see it, although we are still relatively young, but I think we shall see major changes in our cities. One aspect of our roads I should certainly like to see changed—and I hope it will be in his lifetime and mine—is the clearance from the streets of so many cars that are the main obstacle to the free flow of vehicles. This new system will certainly play its part.
§ LORD POPPLEWELLMy Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether he is aware how very pleased some of us are at his Answer; that at long last his right honourable friend is doing something? 758 Many of us have been pressing for this for years. The synchronisation of traffic lights applies not only in America, but in many Continental cities. May I ask that he reminds his right honourable friend of the Question I put many years ago, asking for synchronisation of traffic lights in the West roads of Newcastle, which might be thought of as an experimental city?
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, I have a very good memory, and I do not remember my noble friend asking about Newcastle. It must have been put to my noble friend Lord Champion when he had the task of answering for this Department. I will take note of what my noble friend has said. But I think I should be fair and say that my right honourable friend the Minister of Transport has been active in considering this matter. This scheme was in fact started in 1963, and the time taken in its development has been due to the building and designing of the computer.