HUMAN RIGHTS CONVENTIONS (Hansard, 18 December 1967)

§ LORD BROCKWAY
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

§ THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (LORD CHALFONT)
My Lords, I take it that the noble Lord is referring to the nineteen Conventions listed in United Nations Reference Paper No. 6 of June, 1967. Of these the United Kingdom is party to ten. In addition we intend to accede to the Genocide Convention as soon as the necessary domestic legislation has been enacted, and we have signed the Convention on Racial Discrimination. Our position on this instrument, as well as on the International Covenants on Human Rights and the Convention on Consent to Marriage, is being considered and we hope to announce our decisions during Human Rights Year. The principal obstacle to ratification of the International Labour Organisation Conventions on Equal Remuneration and Discrimination in Employment and Occupation is the position regarding equal pay for equal work. Only seven countries have ratified the Convention on the Right of Correction since its adoption in 1952. In view of the terms of this instrument we do not propose to ratify it.

§ LORD BROCKWAY
My Lords, in thanking my noble friend for that very 1262 full reply, may I ask him this question? In view of the fact that the United Nations has asked that these Conventions should be ratified before Human Rights Year, 1968, and that they particularly mention nine Conventions, four of which the Government have not signed—the two on racial discrimination, one on equal pay for equal work and one on freedom of association—will the Government seriously consider the latter Conventions during Human Rights Year?

§ LORD CHALFONT
My Lords, of course we will give close attention to these Conventions, especially with the coming Human Rights Year in view. I have answered some of the noble Lord's specific points in my original Answer, and I think he will agree that our record in this matter of signing and ratifying Human Rights Conventions is very good. Indeed, according to my latest information only seven countries in the world are party to more of these Human Rights Conventions than we are.

§ LORD BROCKWAY
My Lords, may I assure my noble friend that I appreciate that? In relation to the Convention on racial discrimination, why have the Government only signed this and not ratified it? And in view of the Government's declaration that they will be introducing a Bill regarding discrimination in employment, what is the reason for not ratifying the Convention dealing with racial discrimination in employment and occupation?

§ LORD CHALFONT
My Lords, so far as this important Convention on racial discrimination is concerned, we did, as my noble friend will know, sign it on November 11, 1966, and the question of ratification will be considered further in the light of the Government's eventual decisions on the new domestic legislation, on race relations. This will, of course, bear very much on the subject matter of the Convention, and we cannot proceed further with the question of ratification until we are clearer as to the likely nature of our own law and practice in this particular field. The Convention itself, as my noble friend will be aware, has not yet entered into force.

§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILL
My Lords, in view of the fact that every year at Labour Party Conferences a resolution 1263 demanding equal pay is supported unanimously, and this has continued for at least fifty years, why is it that when the Labour Party is now in government with a majority of a hundred it continues to exploit the work of industrial women workers by denying them the rate for the job? There is nothing to laugh at; you ought to be ashamed.

§ LORD CHALFONT
My Lords, I am not ashamed. I am not laughing at the noble Baroness's question or at the spirit behind it. I can assure her I take it very seriously. I was merely reacting to what appeared to be the general reaction of the House to the noble Baroness's question. If there was any suggestion in my manner that I did not take her question seriously, I deeply apologise. So far as the substance of the question is concerned, the noble Baroness will know that we are committed to the principle of equal pay, but present economic circumstances rule out immediate steps to its full implementation.

§ LORD BYERS
My Lords, could the noble Lord say when economic circumstances are likely in the next fifty years to enable the Government to bring in equal pay?

§ LORD CHALFONT
My Lords, I cannot answer that question.

§ BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRY
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that we are rather tired of hearing about principles being accepted, and then finding that nothing is done about their implementation? Could my noble friend tell the House how many countries have ratified the Convention on equal pay; or, alternatively, how many are in the disgraceful position of ourselves in not having done so?

§ LORD CHALFONT
My Lords, without notice, I cannot answer specifically the noble Baroness's question, but in the United Nations Reference Paper No. 6 of June, 1967, which is available, the 1264 noble Baroness will be able to discover exactly who has signed and who has ratified each of these Conventions.

§ BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRY
My Lords, I have just been given the information that 54 nations have signed this Convention. If that is correct, how many nations would not have done so?

§ LORD CHALFONT
My Lords, I am afraid I am not in a position at this moment, without all the documents in front of me, to do that kind of arithmetic. If the noble Baroness is right and 54 nations have signed and ratified, then Reference Paper No. 6, to which I made reference, w ill tell her exactly those countries which have not ratified. I do not have the information in front of me.

LORD HAWKE
My Lords, are Her Majesty's Government aware that we males are extremely reluctant to have our pay and salaries reduced to the level of the females?

§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILL
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that the answer he has given is precisely the same as that given by the Tories for the last thirteen years? If it is possible for 54 countries to find it economically possible to give equal pay, why is it that Great Britain, with a Labour Government, fails to do so?

§ LORD CHALFONT
My Lords, the question of equal pay obviously arouses passions and sincere feelings. I can only say again that the Government are committed to the principle of equal pay. I know that this does not satisfy certain of my noble friends. I can only say that the economic situations of other Governments do not have any great and immediate relevance to our own economic situation. This is a principle to which we are committed, and my noble friends know that; and I hope that in due course we shall be able to translate this principle into action. But it is not for me to say—I am afraid I cannot say at the moment—exactly when that will be.