HL Deb 13 April 1967 vol 281 cc1415-7

3.51 p.m.

Debate resumed.

LORD NUGENT OF GUILDFORD

My Lords, may I thank the noble Lord, Lord Walston, for the pleasant terms in which he moved that this Bill do now pass, and may I join with him in tribute to our old friend, Lord Williams of Barnburgh, for his very great services to the farming industry and also for his valued friendship which so many of us enjoyed. I should also like to thank the noble Lord, Lord Walston, for bearing with our rather long debates so patiently and skilfully—and this, perhaps, without all the notice he would have liked. We have indeed had some valuable debates. I think we have made some useful Amendments, most of which have been accepted by the Government. I was particularly glad to hear of the acceptance of the forestry Amendment to-day.

The Bill covers a very wide field and does a number of useful things, but, as we told the noble Lord on Second Reading, in our judgment it does not go to the heart of the industry's problems. But here I have to digress for one moment to congratulate the noble Lord on securing such a favourable Price Review: it has been a substantial help in improving the profit margins in the industry which were so badly in need of attention. It may be that, for the moment, at least, the terms of the Review have done more than the Bill to meet the really acute needs in some parts of the industry. I can only hope that the noble Lord carried our message to the Minister after the Second Reading of this Bill; and, if he did, I congratulate him on the successful result.

To return to the Bill itself, we had some lengthy discussions about the Meat and Livestock Commission to which he referred, and this scheme has the full support of noble Lords on this side. We feel that the Commission will be a valuable body and one that will have an essential job to do in developing the livestock industry to meet the extremely complex and difficult needs of moving the animal from the farm to the counter. The Commission can undoubtedly do a very valuable job there. I would say to the noble Lord that this is a job which will not be done quickly: it will be a continuing function. The success of this Commission will depend entirely on the calibre of the members, and particularly of the Chairman. They must of necessity be drawn from outside the industry in order to have the necessary independence, and I would express the advice, if I may, to the noble Lord that, in the appointment of this Commission and the Chairman, the Government should be generous with the salaries and should be rather particular about the ages of the members, so that they have a pretty long run ahead of them, in the hope that they will, between them, establish this Commission successfully before the time comes for them to retire. With these words, I wish the Commission well and hope that they will be able to make a substantial contribution to the livestock industry.

I would say that the small Amendment we have made, to suspend the compulsory powers of the Commission for the first five years, will, I am sure, be a help to them rather than a hindrance. I cannot believe that they will consider using compulsory powers in the early days. They must then be exerting themselves to get to know the industry and win its confidence. I am sure that this will give them an indication which would be helpful to them rather than the reverse.

I have already made a comment in welcoming the acceptance by the Government of this, as we think, redress of the balance in favour of private forestry interests. A good deal of anxiety was felt on this side of the House about the rather rough treatment that private forestry was geting. We were greatly relieved to hear from the noble Lord, Lord Hughes, the Government's acceptance of the inclusion of land which was under a dedication covenant in the same terms as Forestry Commission land and therefore outside the action of a Rural Development Board order. This went a long way to reassure the anxieties that we felt, and we were particularly grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Hughes. We felt that his great interest in forestry was a considerable help in persuading the Government of the wisdom of the Amendment we were moving.

With regard to the other changes which the Government are introducing under Part II, I welcome particularly the assistance to the improvement of the structure in the industry. I do not myself feel that it will be more than marginal. But this is moving, and provided that other aspects of Government policy, particularly Government fiscal policy, do not fragment the big estates and big farms, then I think the economic trend towards the bigger most efficient unit will proceed in any event. In the main, this Bill makes improvements and starts new thoughts in the farming industry which can be helpful to it. It has our support, and I am happy to agree that it should now pass.

On Question, Bill passed, and returned to the Commons.