§ 4.0 p.m.
§ LORD BOWLESMy Lords, with your Lordships' permission I should like to intervene to repeat a Statement which has been made by my right honourable friend the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance in another place. The Statement is as follows:
§ "With permission, Mr. Speaker, I should like to give the House an outline of the Government's proposals for a scheme to replace National Assistance.
§ "A Ministry of Social Security will be established bringing together the existing Departments of the Ministry of Pensions and National Insurance and the National Assistance Board. This will get rid of the sharp distinction between benefits related to contributions and non-contributory benefits.
§ "A new scheme of non-contributory benefits will replace National Assistance. Provision will be made for rent and additional payments to meet special individual needs; but the aim will 925 be to make this part of the scheme more readily understandable than the present discretionary additions. A form of guaranteed income will be provided for the old and others with long-term need such as the chronic sick.
§ "Rules for the treatment of resources will be simplified and rationalised. There will be a small disregard ' of all income except National Insurance pensions and benefits, family allowances and maintenance payments. The amount of savings of any kind to be totally disregarded will be increased, so that modest savings will be ignored—no matter how they are invested. A new system will be adopted for capital above this level which will get rid of the rigid limit of £600 which at present by itself disqualifies the holder entirely from benefit.
§ "The procedure for claiming the new benefit will be made more flexible for retired people. They will have a choice of making a written declaration of their circumstances or of being visited at home. The assessment based on the written declaration will need to be confirmed by an interview, but if desired this could take place at the local office.
§ "There will be less routine visiting; but visiting officers will have more time to ensure that any welfare needs are identified and brought to the notice of the appropriate service.
§ "When an elderly person receiving the new benefit also has a National Insurance pension the two will be paid together on a single order book. Those who are not receiving retirement pension will receive payment on an order book of similar appearance to the retirement pension order book.
§ " The new Ministry will send details of the new benefit to everyone claiming a National Insurance retirement pension. Personal contact will be made with anyone who, on retirement, does not claim the new benefit, unless he indicates that he does not want it, and the same will be done on widowhood. As the scheme develops we shall arrange to contact pensioners after they have been retired for some years.
§ "Financial help is not the only kind of help that old people fail to seek. A wide range of services to meet health 926 and welfare needs is provided by local authorities, but too often they are not known by old people or the effort to make the necessary contact is beyond them. The arrangements I have described will help to overcome these difficulties.
§ " To preserve responsiveness to human needs there will be within the Ministry of Social Security a Commission of persons chosen for their interest in, and knowledge of, social problems, in whom will be vested the responsibility, under broad regulations made by the Minister, for guiding the new scheme and for individual awards.
§ " These changes will preserve what is good in the present scheme while getting rid of those features which create dislike or misconception. Everybody recognises the humanity and efficiency with which the National Assistance scheme is administered, and the Government are confident that these qualities will be carried over into the new organisation. But the new Commission and the staff concerned will be enabled to do an even better job. The Government believe that the changes will ensure that the elderly will have no hesitation in claiming a benefit, given with dignity, to which they are entitled and which the nation wishes them to have."
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, I should like to thank the noble Lord for that Statement. I would express my own gratification that the Government have come so far round to the way of thinking of this side of the House. I congratulate them on having come to realise that any scheme to effect an improvement and to take the place of National Assistance should be related to needs, and not simply be a scheme for a means test coupled with a deficiency payment, as was their previous idea.
There is a great deal in this Statement which we welcome very much indeed. As the noble Lord has said, we welcome in particular the effort which the Government have made to get rid of those features which create dislike or misconception. In particular, I welcome the procedure for making the scheme more flexible; I welcome, too, the procedure for more visiting. But I should like to ask whether the Government really intend 927 this extended visiting, as the Statement implies, to be carried out within the framework of the present number of National Assistance offices. If the Minister is going to keep on with the present system of visiting those who are already in receipt of National Assistance, or whatever it may be called, he is not going to economise very much there and will not have many visiting officers left over to do the further visiting in order to root out need—which is what seems to be envisaged in the Statement. I also welcome the Statement that both the National Insurance pension and the additional grant will be paid in a single order book. I welcome the conception of paying a personal visit, if desired, to those who retire at the time of retirement, although again this may tend to necessitate an increase in the staff of the new organisation.
This is, in essence—let us recognise it—a revamping of National Assistance. The Board is being abolished and a Commission is being substituted. I should like to put a few questions to the noble Lord arising out of what he has said. Will the new basic rates under this scheme be higher in relation to National Assistance than they are now? Secondly, will the disregards for all savings at least be brought up to the level of the disregards for war savings? Thirdly, will the announcement which the noble Lord has made require legislation or not?
§ LORD BOWLESThe answer to the last question is, Yes, it will require legislation. I must say that if the noble Lord really thinks that this Government are following the Tories in any respect whatever, he will believe anything. He mentioned the question of visiting. The scheme will in fact involve less frequent visits. One of the drawbacks and a practice which people have disliked in the present system is that the National Assistance officers called too often, in the view of some of the people who were being visited. The result of this scheme will be that the visits will be fewer. The noble Lord spoke about possible staff increases. If we are to administer more of these non-contributory benefits, staff will be increased and we shall be glad 928 that this is so. We want these people, when we have in mind the Minister's statement in another place, on February 23, that some 700,000 people who were entitled to National Assistance were not getting it at all. Some did not want it, some did not know about it, some were too old to press for it, and so on. Therefore, if we can get these extra people we shall be glad to have them, and we shall need more staff. The noble Lord talks about the new basic rates and the new disregards. I am sorry I cannot tell him what the figures are until the White Paper and the Bill are published in the next Parliament.
§ LORD ILFORDMy Lords, I am very glad that the proposals outlined by the noble Lord in the Statement will still mean that visiting will remain the foundation of the administration of these benefits. I myself have no doubt that visiting is essential to the success of schemes of this nature.
I should like also to say that I am very glad that a body corresponding broadly to the existing National Assistance Board is to be kept in being in an advisory capacity.
In conclusion, I hope I shall not be out of order if I say that I am most grateful to the Minister for the handsome tribute he paid to the work of the staff of the National Assistance Board.
§ LORD BOWLESMy Lords, I will start by complimenting the noble Lord, Lord Ilford, on his work in the National Assistance Board during the years when he was its respected Chairman. On the matter of visiting, it is a fact that some people do not like their houses to be visited, which is why we have put in an alternative method of approach. Those who ar concerned will be able to fill in a form or give the information in writing to the new Ministry. It might have to be followed up by an interview at the office, if the applicant or claimant so desires. As regards the welcome which he gave to the new Board, I am glad to say that I understand that Lord Runcorn, the present Chairman, and other members of the Board are genuinely in favour of the new Commission which it is proposed to set up.