§ VISCOUNT HANWORTHMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
[The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether the evidence for a three-fold accident rate at speeds over 70 m.p.h. mentioned in the recent Government advertisement was based on the United States Department of Commerce Survey; and, if so, whether they would also publish the finding that the accident rate for vehicles travelling at under 25 m.p.h. was more than a hundred times greater than the average.]
§ LORD LINDGRENYes, My Lords. Estimates from this study of the risk of accidents at high speeds were published because they were relevant to the imposition of the experimental 70 m.p.h. speed limit. Estimates of accident risks at below average speeds were not relevant to this decision.
§ VISCOUNT HANWORTHMy Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for his reply, I should like to ask him whether he would not agree that on a pure efficiency basis it would have been far better to carry out experiments with minimum rather than maximum speed limits?
§ LORD LINDGRENMy Lords, there is an expression—I am not quite sure of it—to the effect that figures can lie; but liars cannot figure; or it may well be the other way round. One has to appreciate that while it is true that at low speeds the accident rate is higher, many of those accidents result only in damage to vehicles. In the survey carried out in the United States, for the lower speeds the casualty figure averaged 0.2 persons per accident. For higher speeds the figure was 1.5. For myself, I would rather be hit by a car going at 25 m.p.h. than by one going at 85 m.p.h.
§ LORD BOOTHBYMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord why the Government do not follow the example of the United States and fix speeds, especially on the great highways and trunk roads, at which drivers must go in the different lanes.
§ LORD LINDGRENYes, my Lords, that is what we have been doing since December.
§ LORD LINDGRENWe have, in fact, fixed a speed limit. As a result of experiments, it is possible that we may come to exclude certain traffic from certain lanes. There may also be a minimum speed for travel on the motorways; because there is no doubt that the tendency to bunch does sometimes cause a hazard.
§ VISCOUNT HANWORTHMy Lords, would the noble Lord agree that the whole conception of a blanket 70 m.p.h. speed limit, without controls, is not a scientific experiment but a political move designed to show that some action is being taken and to try out the public reaction?
§ LORD LINDGRENNo, my Lords, To save life is not a political move; it is a humanitarian one. Although the figures received by the Ministry have not yet been published, the American survey shows a speed limit can decrease the number of deaths on both classified roads and motorways. To have saved a life is well worth while.
§ VISCOUNT HANWORTHMay I ask the Minister whether he would not agree that the basis of the experiment is unsound because he has no control with which to compare it, except last year's figures, and that since then a number of things have changed? Would it not have been better to keep some roads decontrolled, so that a direct comparison could have been made under the conditions then pertaining?
§ LORD LINDGRENMy Lords, the Minister does not yet have control of the motorist on the roads. There are, in fact, great variations in the standards of competence of persons in charge of motor cars which can be lethal weapons in the wrong hands. I think that to put an overall blanket on is necessary and those who are competent to drive at much higher speeds without risk ought to be prepared to make that sacrifice, because there are others on the roads not so competent as themselves.
§ VISCOUNT HANWORTHMy Lords, do I understand from what the Minister 901 has said that the speed limit will now be permanent and not experimental?
§ LORD LINDGRENI cannot speak for my right honourable friend, but I am certain, from the knowledge I have of the results, that a further experimental period is quite likely. I would not say more than that.