HL Deb 28 July 1966 vol 276 cc902-4

2.13 p.m.

LORD CONESFORD

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government—

  1. (1) on what date or dates they indicated to all concerned their determination that the freight liner train service shall go ahead on the basis of open terminals;
  2. (2) from what date that service will be operated on that basis.]

THE MINISTER WITHOUT PORTFOLIO (LORD CHAMPION)

My Lords, the Government's determination in this matter has been expressed on several occasions to Parliament, by myself in this House on May 26, 1966, in another place on April 28 last year by my right honourable friend the Minister of Transport at that time, and on May 4 this year by my right honourable friend the present Minister of Transport, who has also made the same point on numerous occasions in recent months to representatives of the railways and road haulage unions and to the Chairman of the Railways Board. On the second part of the Question, I would draw the noble Lord's attention to my right honourable friend's reply, "Soon", on July 26 in another place.

LORD CONESFORD

My Lords, may I thank the noble Lord for his Answer? Does he recall that I last questioned Her Majesty's Government on this subject on March 9,1965, more than sixteen months ago, and that the Government then informed me of the importance they attached to these trains and revealed that negotiations with the trade union had already, on that date, been going on for about twelve months? In view of this, may I ask the noble Lord two questions? Do Her Majesty's Government place any time limit whatever on the obstruction of their policy by the trade union? Secondly, will they bring the conduct of the trade union in this case to the attention of the Royal Commission?

LORD CHAMPION

My Lords, everyone knows that in these matters we are dealing with human relationships and human beings, and human beings can be extremely awkward at times. This is a very delicate matter and my right honourable friend the Minister is pursuing it with determination but also, I am positive, with tact. I am sincerely hoping that the negotiations which are at this moment in progress will lead to a satisfactory outcome of this matter, which we do regard as extremely serious.

BARONESS HORSBRUGH

My Lords, does the noble Lord, Lord Champion, mean to say, or are we to understand, that until now negotiations have not been concerned with determination or tact has not been used?

LORD CHAMPION

My Lords, the noble Lady must not place such a construction upon my words.

LORD CONESFORD

My Lords, does the Minister recall that the terms of reference to the Royal Commission asked them to consider the role of trade unions in accelerating the economic advance of the nation? Does he not think that the fact that these negotiations have been proceeding for over two years without success is a matter to bring to the attention of the Royal Commission?

LORD CHAMPION

My Lords, the Royal Commission had its terms of reference and is pursuing the task which was given to it. This task which it is undertaking, is extremely difficult and I am sure that all the points which the noble Lord has raised will be part of its consideration.