HL Deb 27 July 1966 vol 276 cc783-5

3.1 p.m.

EARL JELLICOE

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what proportion of the proposed cuts in overseas expenditure indicated in the Prime Minister's Statement on July 20 will fall on overseas civil aid and what proportion on defence spending abroad.]

THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE FOR COMMONWEALTH RELATIONS AND FOR THE COLONIES (LORD BESWICK)

My Lords, no further announcement can be made at present, as the decision the Government have taken requires, in many cases, further consultation in detail with those concerned at home and overseas.

EARL JELLICOE

My Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for his remark- ably informative reply, may I inform him that I am extremely surprised by it, because the Prime Minister said in his Statement that firm programmes had been settled for these cuts? If that is so, how is it that the noble Lord is not able to give us this further information?

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, I must say that I am extremely surprised at the line the noble Earl takes, in view of the criticism which he and other noble Lords onthat Bench have made on other occasions about the failure to consult before decisions were taken. I should have thought that he would appreciate the fact that when we have undertakings in conjunction with others overseas it is better to consult them first, before we announce firm decisions.

EARL JELLICOE

My Lords, may I take it that the "firm" programmes are not firm?

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, what the noble Lord may take is that we have decided to cut our overseas commitments by £100 million. The precise proportion between one theatre and another is still at present to be decided.

EARL JELLICOE

My Lords, since the noble Lord has now given me a lead, may I ask whether the figure, which was announced as £100 million by the Prime Minister last week, included, or did not include, possible cuts in the British Army of the Rhine?

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, they include proportions in various theatres that still have, as I say, to be discussed with the various authorities overseas. I should have thought that that was a perfectly sensible line of action to take, and I am surprised that the noble Lord disputes it.

LORD CARRINGTON

My Lords, the noble Lord has said that the Government have decided a cut of this sort but have not decided where to cut. Is that really true?

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, what has been announced is that we shall cut by at least £100 million. What I have also said is that the precise details of these cuts have to be decided after consultation with those concerned overseas.

LORD CONESFORD

My Lords, can the noble Lord say whether he considers the maintenance of an adequate defence a luxury or a necessity?

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, it depends on the definition of the word "adequate".

THE EARL OF SELKIRK

My Lords, are we to understand that if no cuts are to be made in Germany, all the cuts will fall East of Suez?

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, I should have thought that the noble Earl would be greatly mistaken if he decided that no cuts could be made in Germany.