§ 2.36 p.m.
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what is their estimate of the total cost to this country of the F.111A force over a ten-year period.]
§ THE MINISTER OF DEFENCE FOR THE ROYAL AIR FORCE (LORD SHACKLETON)My Lords, the estimated cost of the F.111A force over the next ten years is about £280 million.
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, whilst thanking the noble Lord for giving us this figure, may I ask him whether this estimate includes all relevant items of expenditure, such as the in-flight refuelling element and that part of the cost of the air and land defences and the bases from which these aircraft will be operating which can be attributed to them?
§ LORD SHACKLETONMy Lords, it does not include all the items mentioned by the noble Earl. This covers the provision of the aircraft and for the support for the aircraft in terms of capital payments and running costs. It does not cover the other items I think I am beginning to see what the noble Earl is getting at now.
§ 2.38 p.m.
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the second Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what will be the total dollar cost of the fifty F.111As to be ordered for the Royal Air Force, including the initial purchase price. spares, replacements 456 and the United Kingdom contribution to United States research and development costs.]
§ LORD SHACKLETONMy Lords, the total dollar cost of the F.111A programme, including all interest and capital payments, and running costs over the next ten years, is expected to be about £260 million.
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for giving your Lordships this information. Would the noble Lord agree that, in the light of that Answer, paragraph 10 of the first part of the Defence White Paper could be extremely misleading?
§ LORD SHACKLETONMy Lords, unfortunately I have not had an opportunity to look at paragraph 10.
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, may I refresh the noble Lord's memory on his own White Paper and remind him that in paragraph 10 the unit cost of each aircraft is given as £2.1 million? That is the basic unit cost, which would amount to a total of £105 million, which of course is a very different figure from the one he has just given, of £260 million.
§ LORD SHACKLETONMy Lords, I do not think the noble Earl should be surprised that I am not able to put a paragraph number to each subject in the White Paper in which there are a large number of paragraphs. I really do not see why the noble Earl is worried. He is experienced enough to know that over a period there is a great difference between unit costs and total costs. I have given much more information than the previous Government ever gave on this sort of subject, and I should have thought he was the last person to accuse us of in any way misleading the House.
§ LORD MERRIVALEMy Lords, may I ask whether the British stake in the F.111A will be limited to a communications fit, or can we hope that the percentage of British equipment will tend towards the percentage which has been satisfactorily reached for the Phantom? I believe there is a figure of 45 per cent. for British equipment in the Phantom.
§ LORD SHACKLETONMy Lords, the noble Lord really ought to put down a Question on the subject. This point 457 does not arise from the Question now before us. In fact, the Phantom reaches that high figure because of the cost of the engine. I think there will be slightly more, or it may be of the same order, of British equipment as in the C.130. I would hazard a guess that it would be about 10 per cent.
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, may I reassure the noble Lord? I was not in any way suggesting that he was misleading me; all I was suggesting was that the White Paper, without the additional information which he has been good enough to give me, could have misled the country.
§ LORD SHACKLETONMy Lords, I do not want to continue with this matter, but it is astonishing that the noble Earl and his friends when in Government gave Parliament very little information. There is infinitely more information in this White Paper, and we continue to pour information on to them when they ask for it, and then they grumble.