§ 3.40 p.m.
§ LORD BOWLESMy Lords, it might be convenient for me now to repeat a reply which has just been made in another place by my right honourable friend the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance in answer to a Question about negotiations with the Irish Republic for a reciprocal agreement on social security. Her statement was as follows:
" I am glad to be able to inform the House that the British Ambassador in Dublin and the Minister for Social Welfare of the Irish Republic have this afternoon signed a reciprocal agreement on social security between the Governments of the two countries. This is the first agreement covering 'British retirement pensions and the contributory old-age pensions of the Republic. It will come into force on April 4, 1966. Under the agreement people in the Republic who have British retirement pensions or widow's benefit will have them paid at the rates current in this country. There are also provisions for the linking of Insurance under the two schemes. It has further been agreed that, in assessing means for the purpose of the Republic's non-contributory pensions, British war pensioners will have the same amount of their pensions disregarded as do Service pensioners of the Republic."
§ That concludes the statement.
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, I should like to thank the noble Lord for repeating this statement. I welcome it very much. I know that this is something which has been the subject of negotiation for a considerable time. I welcome in particular the fact that British retirement pensions and widows' benefits earned in this country by people now living in the Republic will be paid at the rate current in this country. The important word is "current" because, if I 477 understand it aright—and I would ask the noble Lord to confirm this—that means that, instead of pensions continuing forever to be paid at the rates current at the time when the British pensioner had gone to live in Ireland, the rates will now be raised as they are raised in this country.
I am not quite certain what is meant by linking Insurance under the two schemes, and if the noble Lord has any information on this I would ask him if he would give it to us. The disregards for British war pensions in the Republic's non-contributory pension scheme is also important, and I am glad that the Irish Government have agreed that the same disregard should apply in relation to British war pensions as that in the Republic scheme.
LORD REAMy Lords, before the noble Lord replies, may I give a warm welcome from these Benches to the statement the noble Lord has made? It is most encouraging that we are getting on so much better terms with the Irish Republic and Northern Ireland. if we could act in a tripartite way with Northern Ireland and Southern Ireland, we could get closer and closer together; and I congratulate the Government on a very good step forward.
§ LORD BOWLESMy Lords, may I thank the noble Lord, Lord Rea, for his gracious remarks. On the question he raised about the Irish Republic pensioners in Great Britain and Northern Ireland, the Irish Republic are already paying their pensioners in Great Britain and Northern Ireland at the rates current in the Republic.
The noble Lord, Lord Drumalbyn, is quite right when he interpreted the words "the rates current in this country" in the way he did. He also raised the question of the British Insurance transfer. British Insurance will be transferred to the Republic where contributions have been paid in both countries and one pension is payable in either country or only a reduced rate of penion is paid by one country. British contributions will count towards the 156 test of the Irish Republic and the British and British average will be added to the average in the Republic. In some cases, the pensioner will sacrifice his British pension in order to receive a higher rate in the Republic, 478 but can transfer back to the United Kingdom, if there is a subsequent increase in British rates.
The noble Lord also raised the question of British war pensions in the Irish Republic. The Republic ignores the first £80 of its own war service pension when a pensioner claims a non-contributory pension and he then has to satisfy a means test. Under the agreement, British war pensioners will be treated in the same way.
§ LORD BOOTHBYMy Lords, I should just like to congratulate the Government on a remarkable achievement.