HL Deb 23 February 1966 vol 273 cc211-3

2.16 p.m.

VISCOUNT STONEHAVEN

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether the future of the British Transport Museum at Clapham is assured and what arrangements are made for advertising and popularising the Museum.]

THE PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY, MINISTRY OF POWER (LORD LINDGREN)

My Lords, the British Transport Historical Relics Scheme 1963 provides for the preservation of the relics housed in the Transport Muesums at Clapham, Swindon and York. I understand that the British Railways Board have no present intention of ceasing to use the Clapham Museum for the display of part of the collection, although this is not specifically required by the Scheme. The arrangements for advertising and popularising that Museum remain the responsibility of the Railways Board.

VISCOUNT STONEHAVEN

My Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for his Answer, may I ask him what "part of the collection" means?

LORD LINDGREN

My Lords, there are three sections of the Museum. There is the Museum at Clapham, which is a general one; there is the one at Swindon, which is largely based on the old Great Western Railway and, of course, there is the one at York, which is largely based on the old North Eastern and Great Northern Railway.

LORD ST. HELENS

My Lords, is the Minister aware that, in the autumn of 1964, when I wrote to the British Railways Board on behalf of someone who was then one of my constituents, I received the specific assurance that there was no foundation whatever in Press reports that the Museum at Clapham was to be closed down in the foreseeable future?

LORD LINDGREN

My Lords, I did not see the Press report to which the noble Lord refers. But, of course, his statement is a matter of fact. I hope that the transport industry, as an industry, will continue to provide this valuable Museum, and I am only too pleased to have the opportunity to-day to give publicity to what I think is one of the best exhibitions of transport in this country.

LORD NEWTON

My Lords, I am sure the House is glad to know that it is the noble Lord's view, and therefore, presumably, the view of Her Majesty's Government, that British Railways should continue to accept their responsibility for maintaining these three very fine museums in toto, as they have in the past. Would he also bear in mind that, if British Railways ever became difficult about this—and I suppose they might—it might well be that the Science Museum would be willing to take on some, if not all, of these responsibilities.

LORD LINDGREN

My Lords, that position is a little hypothetical, although I must say that there is perhaps some foundation for the suggestion inasmuch as maintenance of museums such as these is quite costly. I think the Board lose about £60,000 a year on them. There have been hints from time to time that the management, who are in deficit, may consider shedding the heavy cost and that these museums might be taken over by the Ministry of Education and Science.

LORD NEWTON

My Lords, would the noble Lord be good enough to look further into the point which I raised about the Science Museum? If he does, I think he will find that the question I put to him was not altogether hypothetical.

LORD LINDGREN

I will most certainly look at it, but at the moment it is the view of my right honourable friend the Minister of Transport that transport as an industry should maintain a museum of its own in exactly the same way as one expects the gas industry and other industries to maintain their museums.

VISCOUNT STONEHAVEN

My Lords, would the noble Lord agree that this is an absolutely unique collection, and that as we founded the railways it is a potential dollar spinner? Could he assure me that all forms of free advertising, as at Embassies, Legations and consular stations abroad, are primed to push this asset which we have in this country? And would be perhaps endeavour to enlist the support of the railway preservation societies in this obvious financial burden?

LORD LINDGREN

Yes, my Lords. And, in addition, of course, extensive advertising is done through tourist agencies, travel agencies, education authorities and teachers' organizations; and every opportunity is taken, not only of free advertisements but of using advertising that one can get at a reasonable cost.