§ 2.35 p.m.
§ LORD CHORLEYMy Lords, before asking the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper, I should like to apologise to the House for not having been in my place when my Questions were called last week. Also, I ought to declare an interest in that I am a member of the Mountain Rescue Trust. I beg leave to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will take the necessary powers for the supply of radio-telecommunication equipment to mountain rescue posts and teams; and, if not, why not.]
§ THE MINISTER WITHOUT PORTFOLIO (LORD CHAMPION)My Lords, Her Majesty's Government already assist these organisations by providing first-aid equipment consisting of drugs, dressings and other essential articles at the cost of the Hospital Service at 57 mountain and two cave rescue posts in England, Wales and Scotland. In addition, subject 2 to the requirements of the Service, which must have first call, six mountain rescue teams of the Royal Air Force are available and no charge is made for their services. In the view of Her Majesty's Government, it is reasonable that further equipment such as that referred to by the noble Lord should be provided by voluntary effort.
§ LORD CHORLEYMy Lords, I thank the Minister for his reply. Will he not agree that it is very important indeed that the doctor who is waiting at the foot of the mountain to receive a casualty should have accurate information as to the state of the casualty; and does he not think this is really the only effective method by which he can receive it? The Minister referred to supplementary drugs and other assistance offered. These mountain rescue teams are very grateful for this, but can the Minister not see that it is illogical to grant one and not the other? Does he realise that not to be given this essential assistance is a great frustration for these brave men who risk their lives and limbs every week-end, and even during the week, in the Highlands, in the Lake District and in Snowdonia?
§ LORD CHORLEYWith great respect, these words are in the form of a question. Is the Minister also aware that these R.A.F. teams have done splendid work but are found in only certain parts of the country and not, for example, in the Lake District, which is one of the places where this sort of assistance is required particularly? Finally, the Minister has referred—
§ LORD CHORLEYThis also is in the form of a question. Does the Minister feel it is fair that these young men should not only risk their lives and limbs but should be called upon to provide the £5,000 or£6,000 which I understand is required in order that this radio communication equipment may be purchased?
§ LORD CHAMPIONMy Lords, if I may now reply to the debate, I would say that this, of course, is a purely voluntary activity; it is a dangerous activity undertaken by these young men. I believe that if they undertake this activity they should form themselves into clubs and make contributions which would enable them themselves to purchase some of this equipment, as, indeed, some organisations do. I am told that several climbing and mountaineering clubs provide communication equipment by contribution from their members. The services provided by the R.A.F. are considerable and they have been provided by the Service at the expense of the State. They have wireless telegraphy sets for communication with base and ultra-high frequency sets for communication with aircraft. Both these kinds of sets are mounted on vehicles and their use is limited to points which the vehicles can reach. But the supply of radio equipment to enable contact to be maintained with the searchers on the mountains is under consideration. We think that up to now the taxpayer is doing pretty well as much as he ought to do about this voluntary activity undertaken by these young people.
§ LORD FORBESMy Lords, would the noble Lord agree that what is wanted is the education that some of our mountains are very dangerous for inexperienced climbers? Secondly, would the Government agree that mountain rescue personnel and the police are themselves often put in great danger in rescuing foolhardy people who should know better?
§ LORD CHAMPIONMy Lords, of course I am in absolute agreement with that. I support the mountain climbing schools which exist in different parts of the country, but I think one would have to be absolutely mad to embark on this dangerous enterprise without previously having had some training in how to do it.
§ LORD CHORLEYMy Lords, does the Minister not realise that most of the people who are rescued are ordinary tourists walking on the Fells, and not expert climbers at all? Nearly all the rescue work is of this kind.
LORD REAMy Lords, the Minister referred to young men. Young men are not the only kind of people involved in rescue squads. Often it is old men, women and boys who risk life and limb, and who in a metropolis or a town would have the means of rescue provided out of public funds.
§ LORD CHAMPIONMy Lords, it is not only young men; I recognise that. The point is, however, as my noble friend has said, that people who in many cases stupidly and foolishly get lost in the mountains have to be rescued, too. I think that the Government are doing all they should be expected to do, having regard to the fact that it is taxpayers' money that is at stake.
THE DUKE OF ATHOLLMy Lords, are the Government satisfied that it is as easy as possible for these people to obtain the allocation of a wavelength when they get the equipment? This seems to me to be one of the difficulties.
§ LORD CHAMPIONMy Lords, this is taking me right outside my brief. I am not going to answer that question without notice.