§ 3.16 p.m.
§ THE EARL OF DUNDEEMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether there has been any modification in their policy relating to the conditions which must be fulfilled before Britain can become a member of the European Economic Community.]
§ THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (LORD WALSTON)My Lords, Her Majesty's Government's policy remains that we are ready and willing to join the European Economic Community, provided that essential British interests are safeguarded.
§ THE EARL OF DUNDEEMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that many people's hopes were raised a great deal by the speech of the Foreign Secretary last Tuesday at a Federal Trust lunch? In the course of that speech he said:
Our minds are certainly not closed to new ideas, and we should interpret the basic conditions we have laid down for ourselves in the light of all the existing facts and circumstances, some of which have changed since the conditions were formulated.Do the Government realize that if these five conditions of the Labor Party, formulated in 1962, continue to be defined and asserted, as they have been by the 489 Prime Minister until quite lately, there will be no chance of negotiations for British entry ever beginning? Can the noble Lord say whether the Foreign Secretary's speech indicates that some substantial change will be made in these conditions; or, better still, that they will not be gratuitously asserted at all before negotiations being?
§ LORD WALSTONMy Lords, I am glad that hopes were raised by my right honorable friend's speech to which the noble Earl has referred. I believe there was some justification for those hopes being raised. With regard to the change of conditions, I would remind the noble Earl of what was said by my right honorable friend the Foreign Secretary in another place on December 20, when he said that the five conditions which the Labor Party set down in 1962 still define its essential interests. But he went on to say that some of these conditions are now easier of fulfillment than they were at the time when they were made.
§ THE EARL OF DUNDEEMy Lords, being easier of fulfillment is not the same thing as changing them. What the Foreign Secretary said last week was:
… we should interpret the basic conditions … in the light of … circumstances some of which have changed since the conditions were formulated.I want to know whether this is merely a verbal exercise or whether there is any basis for the idea that the Government are not going to insist on conditions which everybody knows will make it impossible for negotiations to begin.
§ LORD WALSTONNo, my Lords; the conditions remain. When they were first laid down, some three years ago, many people said, "It is impossible for these conditions to be met, for various reasons." Now circumstances have changed, and it is now relatively easier for most of those conditions to be met.
§ LORD BYERSMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether that means that Her Majesty's Government are now prepared to take the initiative in this matter of getting the United Kingdom in as a member of the Common Market?
§ LORD WALSTONMy Lords, I would assert that we have already begun certain negotiations, particularly through, and in conjunction with, our EFTA partners. By 490 Such statements as that made by the Foreign Secretary to which the noble Earl has referred, we have shown our increasing interest in entry into Europe. But in the opinion of Her Majesty's Government it is not for us now to take the initiative of applying for membership.
§ LORD BLYTONMy. Lords, is my noble friend aware that the five conditions laid down in 1962 are right and proper for this country? And is he further aware that the British electorate will not tolerate handing over the internal economy of this country to a supranational authority abroad?
§ LORD WALSTONMy Lords, it is because I am aware that those five conditions were right and proper when they were laid down, and because Her Majesty's Government are aware of that, that those five conditions still remain. But, I repeat, there has been a change of circumstances outside which makes those conditions far easier of fulfillment.
§ LORD CARRINGTONMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that I have not the slightest idea what he means? I think the answers that he has given have confused the whole issue even more. Might I ask him whether the answer to my noble friend's Question is "Yes" or "No"?
§ LORD WALSTONMy Lords, I can only express my regret that my Answer has failed to elucidate the Question for the noble Lord and some of his noble friends. Occasionally I think that may be the intention of those who answer Questions, but on this occasion it is not so. Before I can give an answer, "Yes" or "No", I must re-read the Question—My Lords, the answer is: "No"; there has been no modification with regard to the five conditions.
THE MARQUESS OF ABERDEEN AND TEMAIRMy Lords, have Her Majesty's Government been in touch with the other members of the European Free Trade Association with regard to their collaboration in such an application?
§ LORD WALSTONMy Lords, we are in constant touch with our EFTA partners with regard to what was originally described as "bridge-building"; and, as the noble Lord will recall, the Prime Minister took the initiative at a meeting 491 in Vienna last May in order to get this movement going. Unfortunately, shortly after that there were difficulties within the Six themselves which caused all this discussion to fall into abeyance, but the activity within EFTA is still very considerable.