§ 11.5 a.m.
LORD INGLEWOODMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government why imported hardwood is being used in the extension and renovation work being carried out in the Old Bailey, the Royal Courts of Justice, the Imperial War Museum and other public buildings in preference to English oak which is more in keeping with tradition.]
§ LORD HILTON OF UPTONMy Lords, English oak is used a great deal. However, other hardwoods are sometimes chosen to meet special requirements or achieve variety and interest.
English oak was used throughout in the six new courts recently added to the Royal Courts of Justice, but in the new court block now being built Commonwealth hardwoods may also be used to give variety. At the Imperial War Museum where new fire-resisting doors, hand-rails and panelling were fitted, Commonwealth hardwoods were considered more suitable. Work at the Old Bailey is not the responsibility of Her Majesty's Government but of the City of London Corporation.
LORD INGLEWOODMy Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that Answer. While I agree entirely that we want variety in this connection, may I ask whether he will at least see that architects in the public service do not follow the rather unfortunate fashion of the moment of prescribing imported hardwoods in 2068 place of British hardwoods which are traditional, because they are deemed to be on the safe side. Does the noble Lord realise that very large quantities of English oak of constructional and decorative quality for which there is little market are just sawn up in a wasteful way to provide fencing for the motorways?
§ LORD HILTON OF UPTONMy Lords, I am quite prepared to pass on what the noble Lord has said to my right honourable friend. If I may give one illustration which I think will prove that the Government are doing what the noble Lord would wish, I can take the Palace of Westminster. English oak has been used throughout both in the scheme to provide new accommodation in the roof space and in the new building in the Star Chamber Court for the other place. I am aware of the noble Lord's keen interest in this, and I hope that the example I have given will go some way to prove that my right honourable friend is also keen to use English oak wherever possible.
LORD INGLEWOODMy Lords, may I ask a further question? I would say, incidentally, that I had these buildings in mind to use as an example should the discussion have gone that way. Will the noble Lord also look into the question of flooring? A vast amount of hardwood flooring is now used in hospitals, schools and other public buildings. Practically none of it is home-grown timber—and this at a time when we are thinking so seriously about the balance of payments. Will he please treat this as a serious question?
§ LORD HILTON OF UPTONMy Lords, I can assure the noble Lord that I will do that.
§ THE DUKE OF BUCCLEUCH AND QUEENSBERRYMy Lords, as President of the Commonwealth Forestry Association, I was glad to hear the emphasis given on the use of hardwoods from the countries in the Commonwealth; but, at the same time, I should like to know if there is any country in the Commonwealth which can compete with English oak. I do not think this is possible. May I ask whether the noble Lord will keep in mind the fact that the Forestry Commission now find it is very 2069 costly to grow oak in England and are rather tending to give this up and to say that Departments could find timber merchants on all occasions who would be able to secure really high-class English oak for use by Government Departments. In view of the difficulty and cost of growing it, will the noble Lord keep this in mind with a view to helping those who are trying to grow it.
§ LORD HILTON OF UPTONMy Lords, I cannot say from the information I have at the moment whether any other Commonwealth country can compete with this country, so far as oak is concerned; but I will certainly pass the point to my right honourable friend. So far as the second part of the question is concerned, I think the noble Duke can be assured that the Department concerned is as keen as any Member of your Lordships' House to ensure that we get the right type of timber at competitive prices. In any case I will pass his question to my right honourable friend.