INDUSTRIAL REORGANISATION CORPORATION BILL (Hansard, 15 December 1966)

§ LORD SHEPHERD
My Lords, this is a purely drafting Amendment. Its purpose is simply to delete the words "Subject to the provisions of section 7 of this Act" at the beginning of Clause 4(1). These words are not required. Clause 7 places no restriction on the lending powers which Clause 4 gives to the Secretary of State—indeed there is no mention of Clause 4 in Clause 7. The deletion of these words, therefore, will not affect the Secretary of State's powers in any way—in particular, it will not enable him to lend to the I.R.C. sums in excess of the£150 million limit set by Clause 7, since Clause 7(b) makes it quite clear that I.R.C. borrowing from all sources (including the Exchequer) is to be covered by the£150 million limit. I beg to move.

§ LORD SHEPHERD
My Lords, I beg to move that this Bill be read a third time.

§ LORD SHEPHERD
My Lords, I beg to move that the Bill do now pass.

§ LORD DRUMALBYN
My Lords, before we part with this Bill, may I say a few words? Any measure that is designed to promote efficiency and profitability is to be welcomed, in principle at least, but in practice, I must confess I found it difficult to give an unqualified welcome to a Bill which was in itself as vague as this one and about which its sponsors could, or would, give so little information. However, it has been possible in this House at least to improve the Bill by specifying what is to be the duty of the new Corporation in the exercise of its functions. I am sure we are all very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Aldington, for having prevailed on the Government to introduce that Amendment.
For my part, I still think that £150 million is a very large sum of money to commit for so vague a purpose in a measure which the Government themselves admit is experimental. As I see it, the Bill is so drafted that if the Corporation is to do what is expected of it, and at the same time to pay its way, it will be forced not only to take a share in the equities of industries which it reorganises but to hold on to those equities which prove to be good investments. I suppose it would be too much to expect that they would all be good investments.
I do not think we can regard this prospect with any relish, because it is liable to blur the respective responsibilities of industry and Government. Nevertheless, while we cannot but regard some aspects of this Bill with misgiving, there can be no doubt that the Government have succeeded in recruiting a very good team. We hope that it will play a significant part in the task of modernising British industry which we all recognise to be of the greatest importance. We shall not be surprised if the experiment proves more costly than the Bill would indicate and than the Government appear to expect.
There is one other aspect of this matter which I must mention before we part with the Bill. Repeated fears have been expressed that the Bill represents nationalisation by the back door, or creeping nationalisation. The Govern- 1766 ment have asserted and assured us that this is not so. We welcome that assertion; we welcome the undertaking it conveys. We hope that in this respect the Government will stick to that undertaking. I can assure the noble Lord opposite that nobody will be more pleased than Her Majesty's Opposition if in this respect they keep their word.

§ LORD SHEPHERD
My Lords, I will be very brief. First, I should like to thank the noble Lord, Lord Drumalbyn, and the noble Lord, Lord Aldington, for all the help and assistance they have given the Government in improving this Bill. I fully recognise that the Bill has been improved, particularly by the two suggestions of the noble Lord, Lord Aldington. We have set up an organisation. It now has power and a duty. Sums of money, capital, will be made available to it. Its purpose is to assist the reorganisation in industry which I think anyone who has any knowledge of industry recognises is a necessary feature. The Government believe the Board which has been set up—and the noble Lord has paid his tribute to it—and the Boards that will succeed the present Board will, through this organisation, make a special impact upon industry for the benefit of the country as a whole.
I do not believe that this Board will be costly. I do not say that it will make large profits but, as I have said on two occasions, the Board will be judged not just on the profit it makes but on the quality and the size of the mergers it assists and on the results of those mergers on the economy of the country as a whole. I know that the noble Lord, Lord Drumalbyn, and his noble friends have had misgivings, but I think I have given them assurances so far as nationalisation is concerned and about the freedom of the Board to carry out its operations free from everyday instructions and advice of a Minister. I am confident that in two or three years' time the noble Lord, Lord Drumalbyn, if he is still on the Front Bench, will one day get up and say, "I was wrong, and I am glad I.was wrong."