§ 11.17 a.m.
§ LORD MERRIVALEMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether the Railways Board have considered operating the Aberstwyth—Carmarthen line on the basis of a thrice-daily express diesel service: whether they do not consider that a considerable saving in operating costs could thus be effected compared with past deficits, and therefore whether they would be willing to have the line costed in the same way as the Central Wales route; and finally whether they would not agree that a fast service would attract more custom.]
§ THE MINISTERWITHOUT PORTFOLIO (LORD CHAMPION)My Lords, the Railways Board were given consent to the withdrawal of passenger services from this line on September 10, 1964. Any question of the restoration of services will be a matter for the Board to consider in the light of their commercial judgment. My right honourable friend the Minister of Transport doubts, however, whether any possible scheme of economy could so reduce the heavy loss sustained by the service as to make a reopening justifiable.
§ LORD MERRIVALEMy Lords, I would thank the noble Lord for that reply, but in view of the investigations planned in the Government White Paper, Transport Policy, particularly in paragraphs 29 to 32, would the noble Lord not agree that the Carmarthen—Aberystwyth 1764 line could be specially selected for costing on the basis of operating in the same way as the Central Wales line, as there is in that area such peristent and widespread opposition to the present position?
§ LORD CHAMPIONMy Lords, I think that any decision on this matter must be a matter for the Board. What happened as a result of this closure is that there has been a saving of over £100,000 per annum, and if operating costs were halved and traffic doubled the losses would still be £40,000 perannum. On the point whether there ought to be costing such as the noble Lord suggested, that is a question which my honourable friend will consider in co-operation with the Board.
§ LORD MERRIVALEMy Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for that further reply, but could I ask him whether he would not agree that the social value of this line is without question? Is it not important that justice should appear to be done, and that therefore a decision should be taken in the light of all relevant costing?
§ LORDCHAMPIONMy Lords, we want to see that justice is done. The last Minister of Transport in the Conservative Administration gave sanction for this closure. If I remember rightly, he caused express buses to be run to and from the points mentioned in the noble Lord's Question. Although they are nearly as quick as trains, they are not greatly used.
§ LORD MERRIVALEYes, but is it not correct that in effect the average fares were around 15s.? Does that not denote a demand for an express service rather than a limited stopping service? Therefore does not the noble Lord think that an express rail service would attract greater custom, and cut down journey time from around 2½ hours to 1½ hours?
§ LORD CHAMPIONMy Lords, I really do not think that anything that is done in this connection is going to save this particular bit of line for passenger services. But I must again emphasise the fact that the Minister of Transport has no responsibility for day-to-day management, and this is a matter in regard to which the Board have a duty.