RESERVE FORCES BILL (Hansard, 1 August 1966)

§ LORD SHACKLETON
My Lords, I beg to move that this Bill be now read a third time.

§ LORD SHACKLETON
My Lords, I beg to move that this Bill do now pass.

LORD THURLOW
My Lords, we have little to say at this stage of the Bill. We have had a good debate, and 1078 we have given noble Lords opposite our ideas. As I said before, I am glad that the clauses of the Bill enable the Government to vary the organisation, the equipment, the numbers and, indeed, the emoluments under the Bill, without further legislation, and I hope that some of these recommendations will in due course be accepted. In the future we shall watch the figures for recruiting the three different types of Reserves; we shall watch the effect on the recruiting for the Regular Army, and we shall watch for the effect on the Army Cadet Force. May I close by wishing the new organisation, and all officers and men who serve in the three types of Reserves all success in the future.

§ LORD SHACKLETON
My Lords, our discussions have gone on over a long period, right back to the early discussions on the White Paper. The need for changes in the Territorial Army has been universally recognised, certainly by your Lordships' House. I believe that the changes we are making, for which this Bill provides the statutory basis, have secured general support, and the areas of residual disagreement are, I think, really less than is usual for a reform of this magnitude. I think that the Government—certainly I speak for myself—should be grateful to noble Lords on both sides of the House. With their deep knowledge and their deep love for the Territorial Army, they have displayed an enlightened attitude, and we have arrived at a great measure of agreement.
Although in the discussions on the Bill in this House the Amendments were restricted to one minor technical point, I think the debates on the Bill have helped to clear away a number of misunderstandings. In lieu of the completely separate Territorial Army and Army Emergency Reserve, we shall have a single Reserve whose constituent parts will be more suitably organised, equipped, and trained for the roles which they are likely to fulfil than has been the case in the past—although here again I must acknowledge that there is still some difference of opinion on the development of the Territorials. The future provides for flexibility, although I was bound to remain firm and say that what we were doing with regard to them was directly 1079 related to the role which the Government intended for them. But the Bill is not confined only to the Territorial and Army Volunteer Reserve; it incorporates the results of a long overdue review of liabilities and call-out arrangements of the Reserves of all three Services. Here again, I think your Lordships are all agreed that these are improvements.
I should like to express my appreciation of the restraint which has been shown in not pressing Amendments, and in particular for not insisting on putting the word "Territorials" into the Bill. I would assure your Lordships that nothing has been lost by leaving the Bill as it is. The name is already in use, and to the noble Viscount, Lord Bridgeman, I would say that it will eventually appear in Regulations and as part of unit titles in Royal Warrants.
We have had a good deal of discussion about the role of the Territorials. The Bill does not restrict, except geographically, the role in which they can legally be used, but I find it difficult to foresee circumstances of a great national emergency in which they would have to go outside territorial waters to defend an oil rig. The noble Earl, Lord Jellicoe, hoped that we had not closed our minds to an intermediate period of service on the warlike operations liability. I pointed out, and I think the House accepted, that there were valid operational arguments and difficulties, and that it would mean a reduction in the usefulness of the men who now have a twelve months' liability in the Army Emergency Reserve Category 1, and are now passing to the T. & A.V.R. I should say that Army Emergency Reserve 1 is well recruited, and declarations of intent to accept the new liability are going well. So we hope and believe that the twelve months' liability will not affect recruiting and, of course, we hope that the T. & A.V.R. will never be called out for warlike operations and that, if they are, it will not be for anything like so long as twelve months.
I should like to echo the words of the noble Lord, Lord Thurlow, that the Government, like the whole of your Lordships' House, wish the new Territorial and Army Volunteer Reserve—the "Territorials" of the future—every 1080 success. We certainly hope that the support that your Lordships have given will be equalled by the support of the employers, the trade unions and the civic authorities, and that the Reserve will get off to a good start. Present indications are that it will, and I think your Lordships can feel satisfied that the great traditions of the Territorial Army of the past are being carried forward into the future.