§ 2.36 p.m.
§ LORD ELTONMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they have taken, or propose to take, any action in view of the statement, made to the World Medical Association assembly in London by Dr. Cochrane, Director of the Leprosy Study Centre and adviser on Leprosy to the Ministry of Health, that in respect of leprosy the new regulations as to immigrants are inadequate, and that, unless the inflow of immigrants suffering from this disease is checked, "in ten or twenty years' time one may find leprosy endemic in Britain".]
§ LORD SORENSENMy Lords, a medical examination such as is carried out at the port of entry may not detect leprosy because the disease is difficult to diagnose in its early stages and has an incubation period of up to five years. Equally, the medical examination in the country of origin that has been proposed in the recent White Paper on Immigration from the Commonwealth (Cmnd. 2739) cannot be guaranteed to detect the disease. I should, however, like to emphasise to your Lordships that leprosy is not nearly as contagious as some people believe, and that Dr. Cochrane himself has recently expressed the view that the possibility of its transmission under normal social conditions in this country is virtually negligible.
§ LORD ELTONMy Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for his Answer, may I ask whether he realises that if, as he has just told us, the risk of infection 440 is virtually negligible, Dr. Cochrane would appear to have thought it worth his while to inform the World Medical Association assembly that if more lepers entered this country then there would be more lepers in it? Is the noble Lord aware that, in the course of Dr. Cochrane's remarks he also stated, according to Press reports, that it is not necessarily true that leprosy does not spread in temperate climates; and, further, that if large numbers of persons from endemic centres of leprosy continue to enter this country, then susceptible individuals among the immigrant population, and eventually susceptible individuals among the native citizens, will become affected? Is that compatible with what the noble Lord has told us?
§ LORD SORENSENI think so, my Lords. I am sure the noble Lord appreciates that every effort is being made to deal with the possibility of disease being spread by immigrants from any country. Already checks are being made at the ports, and also every endeavour is being made to secure that there shall be medical examination at the port of departure. But I understand that legislation is required to cover some of these categories. This takes a little time. But I can assure the noble Lord that the whole matter is being very carefully considered, and we appreciate his concern in the matter. May I just add, further, that the number remaining on the register of lepers in 1965—at the end of October this year—was 343 compared with 340 the preceding year? This does not mean, of course, that one takes these figures as being of no significance: they are significant. I merely say again that the Minister is fully aware of the significance of this matter and is giving it every attention.
§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILLMy Lords, when my noble friend says, "on the register", does he mean the number of patients suffering from leprosy who are now in the small isolation units which we have for those suffering from leprosy?
§ LORD SORENSENMy Lords, I stand to be corrected, but my assumption is that this includes not merely those in the isolation units but others treated elsewhere.
§ BARONESS HORSBRUGHMy Lords, can the noble Lord say whether he has 441 the figure for the number suffering from leprosy four or five years ago in this country?
§ LORD SORENSENYes, my Lords. In 1960, four or five years ago, according to the figures before me, there were 224 remaining on the register after certain deletions had taken place—those who had been returned, repatriated, or in whom the disease had been arrested. After all those deletions had been made, the number in 1960 was 224.
§ THE EARL OF IDDESLEIGHMy Lords, would the noble Lord agree that the overcrowded conditions in which many Commonwealth immigrants live are very far removed from what he has described as normal social conditions in this country? Does this not very greatly increase the risk of infection?
§ LORD SORENSENMy Lords, I am sure that is self-evident, and it applies not only to the particular disease of leprosy but to many other diseases, including tuberculosis. Therefore this matter is bound up with the whole problem of housing, to which very serious attention is being given also.
§ LORD ELTONMy Lords, I think the noble Lord said the number was 343. There have been statements in the Press—I do not know on what authority—giving a somewhat higher number. Are they simply inaccurate, or is there more than one category of leprosy, so that there could be a misunderstanding as to the actual number?
§ LORD SORENSENAccording to the figures which are before me—and I have to go by them—the number is 343. On the point of whether there is any inaccuracy, or what explains the possible discrepancy, I can answer the noble Lord only after further inquiry. If he would like me to make inquiry, I shall certainly be pleased to do so. I understand the average number of lepers who were registered in the five years, 1960–64, is 48. The average for those five years was 48 annually. As I say, if the noble Lord wishes me to get any particular information which I have not been able to give to him today, I shall be most pleased to supply it to him.
§ THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIANMy Lords, could the noble Lord tell the 442 House what proportion of the number of lepers on the register at the moment represents those of British birth?
§ LORD SORENSENNo, my Lords, I could not say. A certain number are, of course. We know that leprosy has existed in this country for many years. As a matter of fact, I was myself inquiring whether it was possible to find out the number of lepers of British birth, of Continental birth, of Maltese or Cypriot birth, and, indeed, the number from other countries of the Commonwealth, but I have not been able to obtain that information, although my interest in the matter is already known.
§ BARONESS HORSBRUGHMy Lords, would the noble Lord consider obtaining that information and, in future, keeping the statistics according to different nationalities?
§ LORD SORENSENMy Lords, I am sorry I did not hear the end of the noble Lady's question, but I understood the first part. Certainly I have myself asked whether information on those lines could be secured. I hope that the noble Lady's question and my interest will accelerate this matter, so that we shall probably get the information we both desire.