§ 3.10 p.m.
§ LORD WILLISMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the second Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are aware of the special problems faced by policemen in the matter of housing, and especially those officers who have to vacate a police house on retirement from the service, and whether they will take steps to alleviate a situation which is causing a constant loss of valuable police manpower.]
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, police authorities are required by the police regulations to provide police officers with either free quarters or a rent allowance. While there are still a few areas where the situation is not entirely satisfactory, the housing of serving policemen is not now a serious problem in the Service as a whole. I am aware that some police officers on retirement are faced with a housing problem. These are officers who, at the time of retirement, are occupying police houses which have to be vacated for their successors. There is no legal obligation on police or housing authorities to provide houses for retired policemen, and my right honourable and learned friend has no power to require them to do so; but many authorities and chief officers of police do what they can to help in various ways—by accepting serving police officers on council housing lists sometimes with an allowance for police service; by arranging for them to live in council houses where they can remain after retirement; by facilitating advantageous mortgage arrangements; or 554 by enabling an officer in the later stages of his service to settle in one place so that he can buy a house if he so wishes. I warmly welcome such measures and, while I recognise that operational considerations must be taken into account, hope that they will be further extended. A police officer's eligibility for free accommodation is a stimulus to recruitment. I am not aware from the evidence available that the housing problem which sometimes results on retirement is a serious cause of loss of manpower.
§ LORD WILLISMy Lords, I thank my noble friend for that reply. Is he aware that this is one of the questions that is most often discussed by the police, and one of the problems most urgently in their minds, and is the cause even of some despair among a large number of serving police officers, particularly when they are coming up towards retirement? Is my noble friend further aware that certain discussions have been held in the West Country, and particularly in Somerset, where some change has been made in this situation in order to make sure that a police officer is not penalised by being at the bottom of the council list on his retirement?
Finally, is he further aware that there is considerable dissatisfaction in the police, particularly among some probationary constables, who are forced to live in police houses which have no resemblance whatever to modern accommodation, and many of which have been described to me as slums? Can my noble friend ensure that something is done to improve existing police house accommodation, and to improve the lot of these constables nearing retirement age, so that they are not penalised in the way which I have indicated?
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, I am not aware that there is distress throughout the country of the kind which my noble friend suggests, and I should have thought the facts I gave in my original Answer were sufficient proof of that. With regard to the special circumstances in Somerset and the alleged difficulties in regard to council houses, my noble friend will be aware that this is my adopted county; that the police in that area are all my particular friends, and that at least fifteen years ago I took 555 steps, which proved successful, to ensure that they were given full consideration in that county with regard to local authority housing.
As to the third question put to me by my noble friend, it is unfortunately the case that the standard of housing accommodation in some section houses still leaves very much to be desired, and I greatly regret this. But in the last financial year we spent £4 million on police housing, and expenditure over recent years has been of that order. I believe that we are rapidly overtaking the position that he described, and that slum conditions in section houses are now, fortunately, rare. However, if he will give me particulars of any instances he has in mind, I shall be pleased to look into them.
§ LORD WILLISMy Lords, I thank my noble friend for that answer, and I will give him the information. May I suggest, also, that he should read the Police Federation Gazette, which will confirm what I say about the distress in the police force on the housing situation. Finally, in view of his good experience in Somerset, may I ask him whether he would consider moving his own accommodation around the country at frequent intervals, in order to improve the situation and to bring it in other areas to the same level as that which obtains in Somerset?
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, the last suggestion of my noble friend is impracticable. But with regard to the first part of his supplementary question, I have read Police Federation publications for many years, but even the one to which he has referred does not convince me that the facts stated therein are true. I think the facts are as I have stated them.
§ LORD DERWENTMy Lords, as the noble Lord knows, this is a particular problem in county police forces, and particularly in counties which are very rural. Is he aware that there is considerable concern in these forces at the moment about the new Rent Bill that is before the other place? Does the noble Lord know that it is the custom of many policemen to buy houses for their retirement from the service, and that while they are still serving they let these houses? Is the noble Lord aware that 556 there is considerable concern in case at the time of retirement they will not be able to obtain possession from their tenants?
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, so far as police officers are concerned, since they live rent-free, they are outside the Rent Bill. With regard to those who own their houses and have let them, I do not see that it is possible to make a particular exception in their case, but we can consider this when the Rent Bill is before us: or, alternatively, the noble Lord might like to put down a Question on that issue.
§ LORD DERWENTMy Lords, before the Rent Bill comes to us, would the noble Lord like to study this question carefully, because the position is as I have said, and it is a particular problem.
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, I will gladly do that.