COMMONS AMENDMENTS (Hansard, 18 May 1965)

§ LORD CHAMPION
My Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons Amendments, Nos. 1 to 13, en bloc.

§ LORD NEWTON
My Lords, it seems to me that the noble Lord is here proposing a very good change in the provisions of the original Bill. Naturally, as a former Minister in the Department of Education and Science, I welcome the fact that this change is proposed. Indeed, one of my pleasanter duties was to pay official visits to those museums for which the Department was at that time responsible. It seems eminently sensible that the Department of Education and Science should have these additional responsibilities added to those which it already has for other museums in London.

§ LORD OGMORE
My Lords, I should like to comment on the explanation given by the noble Lord, Lord Champion, with reference to Secretaries of State. In the old days one put into a Bill the phrase "Secretary of State" because it was assumed that there was only one Secretary of State concerned. It came from the time when there was a Secretary of State for the North and a Secretary of State for the South, and therefore one did not have to put in a Bill which particular Secretary of State was referred to. In recent years it would appear that the late Conservative Administration and the present Government have rather derogated from that position. We now have a First Secretary of State. This undermines both in practice and in theory the old principle that there was only one Secretary of State. If there is only one Secretary of State, how can one have a "First" Secretary of State? Does it mean now that while all Secretaries of State are equal, the First Secretary of State is more equal than any 396 body else? The noble Lord ought to clear the matter up because possibly in future Acts of Parliament we cannot rely on the old theory and philosophy that there was just one Secretary of State.

§ LORD CHAMPION
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Newton, for his welcome to this Amendment. I must say that I am personally glad to find that the House looks like agreeing to the amendment. This happens to be the first Bill I piloted through this House. I am glad to say that the other House has not found it necessary to submit any considerable Amendments to the Bill, which was so carefully examined in this House.
In regard to the point made by Lord Ogmore, I must admit that I have had difficulty on this matter in the past. On one Bill I tried to move that the Secretary of State should be named, and I found myself being met by the noble Lord, Lord Drumalbyn (then from this side), pointing out the fact that the Secretaries of State were equal and capable of undertaking the duties of other Secretaries of State. I think that the noble Lord, Lord Ogmore, has a point: it is time something was done about naming Secretaries of State by their Departments in the various Bills, but I should be straying outside my function if I said that I will attempt to do this by some subsequent Bill. Certainly it is a point deserving of consideration.