HL Deb 12 May 1965 vol 266 cc66-9

2.42 p.m.

BARONESS WOOTTON OF ABINGER

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the second Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are aware that doctors on duty in hospitals, or attending patients in their homes, are constantly liable to be fined for parking offences, and whether some method cannot be devised for obviating this.]

THE PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY, MINISTRY OF TRANSPORT (LORD LINDGREN)

My Lords, in many areas, including London, the police use their discretion, so far as circumstances permit, in favour of doctors whose cars display a badge provided by the British Medical Association. So far as we are aware, these arrangements work well in practice, and we feel disposed to leave this problem to be dealt with by the exercise of local discretion.

BARONESS WOOTTON OF ABINGER

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his Answer. But is he not aware that leaving this matter to police discretion creates a loophole, so that medical practitioners do from time to time appear in the courts and are subject to fines, in circumstances in which it is a great embarrassment to the courts to enforce the law and where it is plainly contrary to the public welfare? Will he not take steps to see that it is a good defence to a charge of a breach of parking regulations to establish that the offence was committed by a medical practitioner in the course of his professional duties?

LORD LINDGREN

My Lords, the badge on the car prevents "ticketing" in 99 cases out of 100—often more than that. Where a ticket is issued, either by a warden or a police officer, arrangements have been made through the B.M.A. and local authorities that the doctor—and doctors have been informed of this by the B.M.A.—sends in the ticket with an explanation and the ticket is not proceeded with. Cases should not, and in our experience do not, come to court.

BARONESS WOOTTON OF ABINGER

My Lords, I regret to differ from the categorical statement made by the noble Lord, but in my experience cases do come to court. They have, in fact, appeared before the bench of which I am a member.

LORD LINDGREN

My Lords, doctors are not always on duty, and doctors off duty cannot claim special privileges.

BARONESS WOOTTON OF ABINGER

My Lords, the cases in question were cases in which the doctors were on duty in hospital.

LORD FRASER OF LONSDALE

My Lords, is it not a most dangerous matter to allow any citizen to be above the law? Once a process has begun, by the placing on of a ticket, should it be in anyone's power to stop the process? Should not the full explanations be given to the court and not to some official behind the court?

LORD LINDGREN

My Lords, the arrangements are at the discretion of the local authority. Doctors are in a special position in regard to their duties of mercy. One does not want to make it difficult; but, equally, one cannot put one class in a privileged position above another.

LORD PEDDIE

My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether the implied preferential treatment for doctors is confined exclusively to members of the medical profession?

LORD LINDGREN

My Lords, it is confined to members of the B.M.A. who have a badge authorised by the B.M.A.

LORD SEGAL

My Lords, will my noble friend say why this privilege should be confined only to members of the British Medical Association, and why it should not be available to other doctors who are totally opposed to their policy? Could it not be made available to other medical organisations as well?

LORD LINDGREN

My Lords, as a trade unionist myself, I am in favour of everyone belonging to his trade union

LORD SEGAL

My Lords, without wishing to doubt in any way my noble friend's faith in trade unions, this is rather a restrictive practice. There are many doctors who are wholly opposed to the policies of the British Medical Association and who object to applying it—

THE LORD PRIVY SEAL (THE EARL OF LONGFORD)

My Lords, I am sorry to interrupt, but I am afraid that my noble friend is getting into something very much like a statement.

LORD WALERAN

My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether he would consider the case of such people as radiologists, chartered physiotherapists and midwives, who all have to come out and visit patients in their homes, professionally, and in the course of their duties as medical people?

LORD LINDGREN

My Lords, this is the difficulty in giving any extra-statutory preferences—where to extend them and where to draw the line. We think that this unofficial concession is the most that can be done.

LORD NEWTON

My Lords, notwithstanding the noble Lord's views on membership of trade unions, would he not agree with his noble friend behind him that doctors who do not happen to be members of the British Medical Association may, none the less, be just as good doctors as those who are, and just as busily engaged in carrying out their duties?

LORD LINDGREN

My Lords, as a Ministry we must have some authorised organisation with which to negotiate. We have taken that as the organisation.

LORD REA

My Lords, as the Minister referred in his original reply to the police, may we take it that what he said embraces traffic wardens as well as policemen?

LORD LINDGREN

Yes, my Lords.

LORD ARCHIBALD

My Lords, does the Minister agree that, without infringing their principles, doctors may belong to trade unions in their profession other than the B.M.A.?

LORD LINDGREN

They may; yes, my Lords.

LORD ARCHIBALD

Then is there any reason why the privilege should not be extended to those other valid organisations of the medical profession?

LORD LINDGREN

My Lords, I think that it would be if the circumstances were explained.