HL Deb 05 May 1965 vol 265 cc927-8

2.46 p.m.

EARL FERRERS

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government how many prosecutions and how many convictions resulted from (a) the 52 cases of robbery and attempted robbery in which firearms were used in the three months beginning November 1, 1964, in the Metropolitan Police District; and (b) the 731 cases of indictable offences in which firearms were used in England and Wales during 1964.]

LORD STONHAM

My Lords, the answer to the first part of the Question is that proceedings have been taken against 18 persons, 11 of whom have been convicted so far. I regret that the information requested in the second part is not available and could be obtained only with a disproportionate effort on the part of the police forces.

EARL FERRERS

My Lords, I am most grateful to the noble Lord for his reply, and entirely appreciate the difficulty in providing the figures for the second part of the Question. But can he say what measures Her Majesty's Government have in mind, other than the Firearms Bill and the Murder (Abolition of Death Penalty) Bill, which they intend to introduce, by which they hope that an adequate level of public safety will be retained?

LORD STONHAM

My Lords, the measures which the Government have in mind, apart from the Firearms Bill—and the importance of the Firearms Bill in this regard cannot be overestimated—are, of course, the whole policy in respect of the police forces, the strengthening of the police forces, the regional crime squads, and many measures of that kind, including the powers of search which police officers will have under the Firearms Bill, both to prevent crime and of course to ensure, so far as we possibly can, the certainty of detection if crimes have been committed.

EARL FERRERS

My Lords, would not the noble Lord agree that, while certainty of detection is of course of prime importance, severity of penalty for those who in fact have been apprehended and convicted is equally a strong deterrent to preventing other people from carrying out these crimes?

LORD STONHAM

My Lords, of course I would agree; and of course, penalties under the existing legislation of up to fourteen years' imprisonment must be regarded as severe penalties and indeed deterrents. When, in a few days' time, your Lordships have the opportunity of considering the provisions of the Firearms Bill, I am quite sure you will agree that the penalties and the coverage of those penalties and all the steps that will be taken will ensure far greater deterrence to those people who are misguided enough to use, or to attempt to use, firearms in the course of crime.