HL Deb 23 March 1965 vol 264 cc524-9

3.50 p.m.

THE LORD PRIVY SEAL (THE EARL OF LONGFORD)

My Lords, with the permission of the House I will make a Statement about the Palace of Westminster similar to one which my right honourable friend the Prime Minister is making in another place.

Her Majesty, having graciously agreed that the control, use and occupation of the Palace of Westminster and its precincts shall be permanently enjoyed by the Houses of Parliament, saving always Her Majesty's Robing Room, the staircase and ante-room thereto adjoining, and the Royal Gallery, which are to remain under the control of the Lord Great Chamberlain whose hereditary functions on Royal occasions shall also be maintained, the Government have decided that:

  1. 1. The Minister of Public Building and Works shall continue to be responsible to Parliament for the fabric of the Palace and subject to Parliament for its upkeep and any extension and alteration thereof and the provision of furnishing, fuel and light therefor.
  2. 2. Subject to the reservations specifically made herein to the Lord Great Chamberlain as representing The Queen and the Minister of Public Building and Works, the control of the accommodation and services in that part of the Palace and its 525 precincts now occupied by or on behalf of the House of Lords shall be vested in the Lord Chancellor as Speaker of the House, of Lords on behalf of that House. Subject as aforesaid, the control of the accommodation and services in that part of the Palace and its precincts now occupied by or on behalf of the House of Commons shall be vested in Mr. Speaker on behalf of that House. The said parts are shown on plans which have been deposited in the Library.
  3. 3. The control of Westminster Hall and the Crypt Chapel shall be vested jointly in the Lord Great Chamberlain and in the two Speakers, on behalf of the two Houses. Subject thereto, the Minister of Public Building and Works shall be responsible for the day-to-day management of Westminster Hall and the Crypt Chapel.
  4. 4. The Minister of Public Building and Works shall be responsible, subject to the arrangements made under the next succeeding paragraph, to both Houses for the provision of such custodians and guides as may be necessary for the Palace.
It is recognised that the powers vested as aforesaid in the Lord Chancellor and Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the House of Lords and House of Commons respectively, may be delegated by each House to such Committee or other authority as it may choose, and any such Committee or authority may use such agents for such purposes connected with the exercise of the said powers as it may think fit.

It will be for the Speakers of the two Houses to make arrangements for the provision of such police as may be necessary for the Palace.

The co-heirs in whom the hereditary Office of Lord Great Chamberlain is at present vested, that is to say, the Marquess of Cholmondeley, the Earl of Ancaster and the descendants of the late Charles Robert Marquess of Lincolnshire, who have inherited his rights of co-heirship, desire to record their humble obedience to Her Majesty's commands with respect to the future control, use and occupation of the Palace of Westminster.

It is intended that these arrangements shall become effective on April 26 next.

My Lords, that concludes the brief statement. These arrangements have been discussed with the Opposition Parties through the usual channels. I hope and believe that they are likely to commend themselves to the House as a whole. I should like to express my thanks to all who have played their part—most of all to the Lord Chancellor. There are a number of detailed points to be worked out. It will no doubt be necessary for the administrative implications of the new arrangements to be considered by the Offices Committee.

The House will have noticed that the new arrangements involve the transfer to other authorities of a number of the powers and responsibilities of the Lord Great Chamberlain. I am sure that it would be your Lordships' wish that I should not sit down without expressing to the noble Marquess, Lord Cholmondeley, the sincere thanks of the House for all the care and trouble that he has taken over our affairs for many years past. I am sure we are all glad that he is going to retain the ceremonial functions in which he has so much experience and skill. He has been a servant of Her Majesty the Queen and of the House now for close on fifteen years, and he has never spared himself in the service of the House, or, indeed, of Parliament as a whole. We all owe him a great debt of gratitude and affection.

3.55 p.m.

LORD CARRINGTON

My Lords, I am sure that we are all grateful to the Leader of the House, not only for making the Statement but also for the fact that he and his colleagues have consulted the Opposition Parties both frankly and fully during these negotiations. We are very glad that he has done so. If it was necessary to make a change—and I make no judgment on that—I do not think we could have reached a more satisfactory settlement than the one before us to-day. The House remains in control of its own accommodation and of its own affairs, which is as it should he and as it must be. We congratulate the noble Earl the Leader of the House, the noble and learned Lord on the Woolsack and, indeed, the Minister of Public Building and Works on having achieved this result, which I think will be satisfactory to everyone.

I should like to join in the tribute which the Leader of the House has paid to the noble Marquess, Lord Cholmondeley. I think all your Lordships know that my noble friend has worked long hours, and with great energy, on behalf of the House as a whole. He resisted, stoutly, successfully and alone, the invasions and raids of a number of predators from another place. He has been responsible for greatly embellishing the rooms and passages of this House with pictures and with tapestries. He has set in motion—I must admit not before it was due—the air-conditioning of this Chamber. He has greatly increased the facilities for the public in the House, and he has done many other things of which your Lordships will be aware. We are glad to think, as the Leader of the House has said, that the noble Marquess will retain a large number of his important functions. We are very grateful to him for what he has done, and we hope that he realises the warm affection with which we all regard him.

LORD OGMORE

My Lords, on behalf of my noble friend Lord Rea, who is indisposed, and on behalf of my noble friends on the Liberal Benches, I should like to thank the noble Earl the Leader of the House, and the noble and learned Lord on the Woolsack, for the great care they have taken in a matter which is rather difficult and delicate, and for the pains they have taken to associate the other Parties in dealing with this problem. On behalf of my noble friends and myself, I welcome the arrangements recorded in the Statement and I, too, should like to be associated with the tribute that has been paid by the noble Earl the Leader of the House and the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, to the Lord Great Chamberlain. We all very much appreciate—and I think we should like it known that we appreciate—the deep personal interest that he has taken in the House and in the comfort of noble Lords for many years past. We are grateful to him, and we look forward to seeing him on ceremonial occasions—those occasions which he graces in a most distinguished and handsome fashion—for many years to come.

3.58 p.m.

THE LORD BISHOP OF SOUTHWARK

My Lords, I am sure your Lordships will appreciate that in normal circumstances whoever spoke from the Bishops' Benches would do so after consultation with the most reverend Primate the Lord Archbishop of Canterbury. But, as your Lordships know, the most reverend Primate is at present abroad, and while in normal circumstances it might have been possible for us to consult him, you will have learned from what has appeared in the papers that his Grace is in a moment of personal sadness, owing to the illness of his wife, and we have therefore not been in touch with him. In so far as I have been able to have consultations with other Members on this Bench, and in so far as any one of us can express an opinion, I should like to say on behalf of the Bishops, that we wholeheartedly endorse what has been said by other Members of this House this afternoon. We have every hope for the future, and we are also most grateful for what the Lord Great Chamberlain has done in the past for us and for other Members of this House.

4.0 p.m.

THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY

My Lords, perhaps as a very old Member of this House (I have been a Member for nearly 25 years), I may say one word. I am by nature a Conservative—not only with a big "C" but I think partly with a small "c" as well. I do not like change for its own sake. But I must say that, if a change had to be made, I do not think the arrangements could be better than those which are contained in the Statement of the noble Earl the Leader of the House. They seem to me to have one immense merit: that they keep control of our own affairs in our own hands—actually, in the very capable hands of the Lord Chancellor, who, I am sure, will conduct his duties with assiduity and ability. He is our "watchdog", and I am sure that he will bark and even if necessary, bite.

The only other thing I wish to say is to join in the tributes which have been paid to the Lord Great Chamberlain. I do not think he could possibly have done his job better than he has done over the last fifteen years. He has been tactful, energetic, and absolutely impartial. I think there are very few of us who have not had reason to thank him at one time or another for what he has done. One of the great merits of this new plan, to me, is that he does not go completely out of the picture. That would have been a great loss for us all and for the House. For all those reasons, I should like warmly to support the new arrangements which the Leader of the House has announced and to thank him and the Lord Chancellor for the work they have put into them.

LORD GRIMSTON OF WESTBURY

My Lords, may I ask just one question, for clarification? Is it quite clear that under these new arrangements these precincts remain a Royal Palace?

THE EARL OF LONGFORD

Yes, my Lords. I do not think there is any doubt about that.