HL Deb 28 June 1965 vol 267 cc710-3

4.45 p.m.

Order of the Day for the House to be put into Committee read.

Moved, That the House do now resolve itself into Committee.—(Lord Hodson.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

House in Committee accordingly.

[The LORD MERTHYR in the Chair.]

Clause 1 agreed to.

Clause 2 [Summons to witness to attend court of assize or quarter sessions]:

LORD HODSON

The first Amendment is simply to leave out subsection (4), which reappears in a different form later. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 2, line 28, leave out subsection (4).—(Lord Hodson.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 2, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 3 to 7 agreed to.

LORD HODSON moved, after Clause 7, to insert the following new clause:

Abolition of subpœnas in certain proceedings 1952 c. 55

". No subpœna ad testificandum or subpœna duces tecum shall issue after the commencement of this Act in respect of any proceedings for the purpose of which a witness summons may be issued under section 2 of this Act or in respect of any proceedings for the purpose of which a summons may be issued under section 77 of the Magistrates' Courts Act, 1952 (process for attendance of witnesses in magistrates' courts)."

The noble and learned Lord said: This clause reproduces what was formerly subsection (4) of clause 2, which puts an end to the issue of a subpœna in any case where a witness summons to compel attendance at a court of assize or quarter sessions could be issued under the clause. The new clause adds to that which was in the Bill originally the case where a witness summons can be issued to compel attendance at a magistrates' court under Section 77 of the Magistrates' Courts Act, 1952. That section provides that Where a justice of the peace … is satisfied that any person.… is likely to be able to give material evidence, or produce any document or thing likely to be material evidence, at an inquiry into an indictable offence by a magistrates' court … or at the summary trial of an information or hearing of a complaint by such a court"— he should issue a summons requiring the attendance of the witness.

Hitherto, although the ordinary procedure was as I have outlined it, or as it is described in that Act, it has been possible for a witness to be served instead with a Crown Office subpœna, perhaps to avoid the necessity of satisfying the magistrate that the witness's presence is necessary. I should have thought it was obviously desirable to do away with that practice in cases to which Section 77 of the Magistrates' Courts Act applied. The proposal in the new clause was not a recommendation of the Criminal Law Revision Committee, because they had not under their purview the magistrates' courts. It is, in fact, made at the request of my noble and learned friend the Lord Chief Justice. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— After Clause 7, insert the said new clause.—(Lord Hodson.)

LORD PARKER OF WADDINGTON

May I just say that I support this Amendment? As somebody responsible for the working of the Crown Office I am, indeed, most grateful for it. If an application is made to the Crown Office, often at a late date, for the issue of a subpœna, it has to be granted; and the only means by which the unfortunate witness can apply to have it set aside is by the cumbersome motion of appearing before the Divisional Court. Accordingly, quite often important witnesses in the Civil Service, or even Ministers, are subpœnaed at the last moment, it may be on a Friday or Saturday, to go, perhaps, to Southend Magistrates' Court on the following Monday, which it is quite impossible for them to do; and in most cases they cannot give any relevant evidence. This Amendment will put an end to abuses of that sort.

LORD BOWLES

I am asked by my noble friend Lord Stonham to say that the Home Office accept this new clause. May I just add to what the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hodson, said, that the new clause will not affect the few miscellaneous classes of proceedings from magistrates' court which do not fall within the terms of Section 77 of the 1952 Act.

I need not trouble your Lordships with many examples, but there are such examples as applications for bookmakers' permits, betting agency permits, and betting office licences under Schedule 1 to the Betting, Gaming and Lotteries Act, 1963. If it should be necessary to compel the attendance of a witness to such proceedings, Crown Office subpœnas could still be issued. As the subject of the new clause is outside the Long Title of the Bill, there will have to be another Amendment later.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD HODSON moved, after Clause 7, to insert the following new clause

Powers of Parliament of Northern Ireland

. Notwithstanding anything in the Government of Ireland Act 1920 the Parliament of Northern Ireland shall have power to make laws for purposes similar to the purposes of this Act."

The noble Lord said: This Amendment seeks to enable the Parliament of Northern Ireland to pass laws for purposes similar to any of the purposes of this Bill, At present the Parliament of Northern Ireland is inhibited by the Government of Ireland Act, 1920, from legislating on reserved matters. The matter before us is a reserved matter, but it is obviously convenient that Northern Ireland should be able to pass a law similar to that in this Bill, and this practice will be secured by this Amendment. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— After Clause 7, insert the said new clause.—(Lord Hodson.)

LORD BOWLES

My right honourable and learned friend the Home Secretary has asked me to announce to your Lordships that he willingly accepts this new clause.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 8 [Short title, consequential amendments and repeals, commencements and extent]:

LORD HODSON

A clause such as is embodied in this Amendment is apparently one of the customs of Parliamentary draftsmen when it is necessary to cover a situation of this kind. I beg to move.

Amendment moved—

Page 6, line 6, leave out from beginning to ("does") in line 7, and insert— (" (5) Any reference in this Act to any enactment shall be construed as a reference to that enactment as amended, and as including a reference thereto as extended or applied, by any other enactment. (6) Section (Powers of Parliament of Northern Ireland) extends to Northern Ireland and so much of this section and Schedule 2 to this Act as relates to the Writ of Subpoena Act 1805 extends to Scotland and Northern Ireland. but, save as aforesaid, this Act").—(Lord Hodson.)

LORD BOWLES

I again have pleasure in informing your Lordships that the Home Office accept this Amendment.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 8, as amended, agreed to.

Schedules agreed to.

LORD HODSON

The two Amendments to the Title seek to cover the restriction of the issue of subpœnas for securing the attendance of witnesses before magistrates' courts, and the addition of the words "and for connected purposes" covers the situation with regard to Northern Ireland. I beg to move the first Amendment.

Amendment moved— In the Title, line 3, leave out second ("and").—(Lord Hodson.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD HODSON

I beg formally to move the last Amendment.

Amendment moved— In the Title, line 4, at end add ("to restrict the issue of subpoenas for securing the attendance of witnesses before magistrates' courts; and for connected purposes").—(Lord Hodson.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

House resumed: Bill reported, with Amendments.