HL Deb 17 June 1965 vol 267 cc211-24

3.56 p.m.

House again in Committee.

Clauses 11 and 12 agreed to.

Clause 13 [Compulsory purchase of rights as respects wells, boreholes and shafts in storage area and protective area]:

LORD CHAMPION

I beg to move Amendment No. 13.

Amendment moved— Page 16, line 44, leave out ("as amended by this Act").—(Lord Champion.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 13, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 14 [Gas authority's liability for underground gas storage]:

LORD BURDEN moved, in subsection (4), after "property" to insert: and any loss to a river authority of charges and fees payable under Part V of the Water Resources Act 1963, and any expense they may incur in cleansing an existing source of supply or in providing an alternative source of supply.

The noble Lord said: This Amendment, together with the Amendments to Clause 17, are submitted on behalf of the Association of River Boards and are directed to securing compensation to a river authority for loss of revenue on their water resources account in the event of a source of water supply being polluted by gas stored in an underground storage. While the Ministry of Power has assured the Association of River Authorities that pollution of water resources from an underground storage is most unlikely, it is clear from the provisions made in Clause 15 of the Bill that it is not beyond all possibility. River authorities will, under Part V of the Water Resources Act, 1963, receive licence fees and charges from licenced abstracters of water and this income will finance the administrative and works expenditure of river authorities under their water conservation functions.

Were sources of supply to be polluted to any degree the river authority concerned could well suffer a serious loss of revenue. I therefore respectfully submit that provision should be included in the Bill for the reimbursement of a river authority for any loss that may be so suffered. Clause 14(4) of the Bill in its present form limits the scope of the damage recoverable under the clause to loss of life, personal injury and damage to property, and the Amendment would widen the scope of the claim for charge by a river authority to loss of income on water resources account. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 17, line 22, after ("property") insert the said words.—(Lord Burden.)

THE EARL OF ALBEMARLE

May I strongly support this Amendment? There are two questions. The first is pollution. Polluted water is no good to anybody until it is expensively put right. The other point is that newly set up river authorities have very little money in their water resources account now, and it will take years to accumulate a sufficient body of capital to conserve water in a really big way. Therefore it is extremely important that any body of charges or fees we can possibly assemble should not be mulcted, as it might be if we were not successful with the gas people.

Another aspect of the matter is that the underground storage of gas is not the only way in which water can be polluted. We all know that water coming out of coal mines is polluted. There is also a modern cause, and that is seepage from pipes that hold liquid gas. In the course of the river authorities' work, when great masses of earth are moved strains take place which can distort pipes that may be running through. Therefore, through earth movement by these great big machines, it may be that there will be a seepage of pollution from gas pipelines, into the water supply. We must not have to fight for reimbursement of the fees and charges. We want to have it laid down and understood. It is going to be difficult to build up our resources, and we hope the Government will see that we are given the latitude requested in the noble Lord's Amendment.

LORD CHAMPION

I am dealing here, of course, only with the first of the Amendments: that is, No. 14. The clause as drafted provides that the gas authority shall be absolutely liable for injury or damage caused by gas in, or escaping from, the underground gas storage or its connected boreholes. The effect of this clause will be to preclude a gas authority, in proceedings against them in respect of damage caused by gas which is in or which is escaping or has escaped from the storage or boreholes, from pleading the defences normally available at Common Law, save that it is left open to a gas authority to plead that the claimant was, by his own fault or by that of his servant or agent, himself responsible for causing the damage that he sustained.

It is exceptional to impose absolute liability and there have been only a few Statutes where this has been done. Normally, liability is left to be settled in accordance with Common Law. But underground storage is completely new in this country, and for that reason people may be uncertain and apprehensive about the possibility that some accident may injure people or damage their property. In some respects the position is similar to that which arose when the first commercial nuclear reactors were developed; there, also, we were concerned with a new development which gave rise to apprehension and uncertainty, and the Government of the day imposed an absolute liability on operators of nuclear reactors by the Nuclear Installations Act, 1959. The two cases are not altogether parallel, since underground storage has already been widely practised abroad and its safety and practicability are well established. Nevertheless, the Government considered that the imposition of absolute liability to the extent provided for in Clause 14 of this Bill was justified because of the novelty of this development in this country.

We think we have gone as far as we should go in this clause. To go further and provide, as the Amendment proposed by the noble Lord does, that the gas authority should be liable for losses without the need to show injury to persons or damage to property or to satisfy the tests applied by the courts would take the scope of the clause beyond the Government's intention and very much beyond what has been done in the case of nuclear installations. In the Government's view, it would be unreasonable that a wider liability should be imposed on the gas authorities than that which Parliament has so recently accepted as appropriate for operators of nuclear reactors. This is a clause, moreover, which imposes a general liability on the gas authorities, and it would be wrong, in the Government's view, to single out one particular group of interests, such as river authorities, for special treatment.

The second part of the Amendment would impose upon a gas authority a liability in respect of polluted water going beyond their liabilities under Clause 15 of the Bill. Shortly, by that clause they are bound to take steps to cleanse or replace water supplies or pay the costs of doing so (or otherwise provide compensation) where there is an existing protected—that is, a proprietary—right to abstract water, whether that right is possessed by a river authority, a statutory water undertaker or some other person. What Clause 15 provides is really a code for dealing with these intricate questions of liability for damage to property, and for this reason subsection (7) makes it clear that in an action brought under Clause 14 compliance with the code will be set off against the damages recoverable under that clause.

The Amendment would appear to impose on the gas authority a liability for expenses incurred by a river authority in cleansing or replacing an existing source of supply where the protected right is not possessed by the river authority. With the safeguards provided in the Bill the Government are satisfied that the underground storage of gas can be developed without risk of harming water supplies. But if a river authority are obliged to exercise their powers under Section 76 of the Water Resources Act to cleanse water accidentally polluted by gas, the Goverment do not consider that a gas authority should be under a statutory liability to pay for the cleansing. Under Section 76 of that Act no person is liable to do so at present. To cast that liability on a gas authority would create an anomaly. There is no difference in principle between an unexpected escape of gas from an underground storage and any other accident or unforeseen event that leads to the pollution of water which a river authority may rectify under Section 76.

The fact is that Clause 14 is concerned with damage for which the gas authority is absolutely liable and cannot plead the defences normally available at Common Law. It does not take away any existing rights at Common Law, or existing rights of action, and in no way limits the liability of the gas authority. Where there had been no damage to property or personal injury, the gas authority could be sued under Common Law where there was any right of action, and the defences normally available at Common Law would apply. I think that there is a sufficient safeguard for all those who have rights in water, and I hope that the Committee will reject the Amendment.

LORD BURDEN

From the long and complicated reply it would seem that a number of people will have rights in regard to damage to property and so on, but that a river authority administering the conservation of water in the public interest will have no rights at all if, through no fault of its own, the water which it is conserving in the public interest is damaged by pollution and has to be dealt with and put right in the public interest. They have to pay for it, or somebody else has to pay for it, including, I suppose, those for whom the water is abstracted. The poor ratepayers in the area of the river authority are the people who will have to bear the cost of something for which they are not responsible, but for which—it may be through inadvertance or other accident—the gas authority is responsible. It may be that that is right and that it is justice. However, I am going to ask the Association of river authorities to consider this statement most carefully and, if necessary, I will come back on the Report stage. I beg leave to withdraw the Amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Clause 14 agreed to.

Clause 15 agreed to.

Clause 16 [Safety conditions]:

4.13 p.m.

LORD CHAMPION

I beg to move this Amendment.

Amendment moved— Page 21, line 3, after ("this") insert ("Part of this").—[Lord Champion.]

On Question Amendment agreed to.

Clause 16, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 17 [Accidents]:

LORD BURDEN moved, in subsection (1), after paragraph (a), to insert: ( ) to the knowledge of the gas authority pollution of water located in or percolating through an underground stratum occurs.

The noble Lord said: I beg to move the first of the Amendments to Clause 17 standing in my name. The Association of River Authorities submit, that, having regard to the major importance of preserving water resources from pollution, specific provision should be included in subsection (1) of this clause placing an obligation on the gas authority to give notice of the event to the Minister, should such an occurrence come to the knowledge of the gas authority. It is appreciated that such a requirement could be specified by the Minister under paragraph (b) of the subsection, but I submit that, in view of the importance of the subject, provision should be made in the clause to draw attention to the paramount importance of immediate action being taken.

One of the gases likely to be stored is methane gas, a natural gas. I am sure that many of your Lordships have read that terrifying book Silent Spring by Rachel Carson, to which my noble friend Lord Shackleton wrote an appreciative introduction. Should a leakage of methane gas occur, the author points out that it can combine with other substances, and, to use her own words, produce a battery of poisons of truly extraordinary powers. The author goes on to say: In the entire water pollution problem, there is nothing more disturbing than the threat of widespread contamination of groundwater…Rain, falling on the land, settles down through pores and cracks in soil and rock, penetrating deeper and deeper until eventually it reaches a zone where all the pores of the rock are filled with water—a dark, subsurface sea, rising under the hills, sinking beneath valleys. This ground-water is always on the move, sometimes at a pace so slow that it travels no more than fifty feet a year, sometimes so rapidly by comparison, so that it moves nearly a tenth of a mile in a day. It travels by unseen waterways until, here and there, it comes to the surface as a spring, or perhaps it is tapped to feed a well. But mostly it contributes to streams and so to rivers. Except for what enters streams directly as rain or surface run-off, all the running water of the earth's surface was at one time ground-water. And so, in a very real and frightening sense, pollution of the groundwater is pollution of water everywhere.

In view of the danger, as the author points out, not to property, but to human life, caused by poisons of extraordinary powers, I submit that it ought not to be left to the gas authority on its own initiative to deal with any leakage from these underground storage pipes, or whatever they may be, but that the Minister should have his attention called to it immediately by the gas authority, and that he should bring into operation powers to defend the interests of the community. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 21, line 14, at end insert the said paragraph.—(Lord Burden.)

LORD CHAMPION

We recognise the genuine fears that may exist in the minds of responsible people, and which clearly exist in the mind of my noble friend. We have again looked at all the provisions of this Bill in the light of the Amendment which he has moved, and we are satisfied that the Bill as drafted provides for adequate control and proper ministerial responsibility. Clause 17(1) obliges the gas authority concerned to give the Minister notice if there is a leakage of gas from an underground storage or the boreholes connected with it, or if some other event specified by the Minister occurs. If this Amendment were accepted, the gas authority would, in addition, be obliged to inform the Minister, whether or not he requested it, whenever pollution of water occurred which was not due to a leakage of gas. The gas authority would also have to notify the public authorities mentioned in Clause 17(5). If there were any risk, however remote, at a particular storage that the water supplies in the storage stratum could be polluted by the gas, the Minister would use his powers under Clause 17(1)(6) to require notice if such an occurrence were to occur.

LORD BURDEN

My Lords, I am sorry to interrupt my noble friend, but how would he go about it?

LORD CHAMPION

I do not think there is any doubt at all that it would come to the notice of the Minister.

LORD BURDEN

How?

LORD CHAMPION

Indeed, it would be the duty of the authority to inform him of anything of that sort, and if the Water Resources Authority got to hear of any such thing they themselves would call attention to it. The point I was going to make is a most important one in this connection. I want to stress the fact that the Minister is bound by the terms of Clause 4(1) to authorise underground storage of only such kinds of gas, including natural gas, as, having regard to the safety of the public and the need to protect water resources, are, in the opinion of the Minister, suitable for such storage. Therefore, he would not authorise the storage of gas where it could pollute water supplies.

This places the responsibility for the storage of gas of a safe kind in these underground storage places firmly on the shoulders of the Minister. This has been considered by the Government, and it was also considered by the Minister who was in charge of the original preparation of the Bill, the noble Earl, Lord Erroll of Hale. Both Ministers had regard to this highly important aspect, and I believe that Lord Erroll of Hale would say that for his part he agreed with the Bill as originally drafted and would support my right honourable friend in saying that these provisions provide adequate safeguard in this matter. However, in determining whether the gas was suitable, the Minister would, of course, take into account the location of a particular storage. A gas which was unsuitable to store in a place where it would come into contact with potable water might be safe to store in a location where water was brackish and unfit for water supplies. In those circumstances the Minister might consider it reasonable to authorise storage of gas in such a place.

If the proposed Amendment were accepted, the gas authority would then he obliged to report to the Minister and to the other public authorities specified in Clause 17(5) that water was being polluted, and to do so each time it occurred. This would place an unnecessary burden both on the gas authority and on the other public authorities, and I hope that my noble friend will accept that the purpose which he has in mind—a purpose which we all have in mind—the protection of water supplies, can be achieved by the use, where necessary, of the Minister's powers under the clause to specify occurrences of which notice has to be given. We recognise that people have these fears. For that reason exceptional care has been given to drafting the appropriate clauses which I have mentioned and which we think provide the safeguard for the public and for those who supply water to the public.

THE EARL OF ALBEMARLE

My Lords, the noble Lord did not mention anything about modern ways of conveying gas in pipe-lines, he talked only of underground storage. But there is an immediacy related to anything to do with the pollution of water. So far as I can see, there is no quick remedial action possible adequate to the seriousness of pollution. Pollution is rather like a fire: you have to run to it at once and deal with it. I do not think that there exists that sense of immediacy and urgency in regard to widespread pollution. Perhaps Her Majesty's Government should think again about this matter.

LORD CHAMPION

I am not quite sure that I understand the noble Earl's point. We are dealing in this Bill only with the pollution which takes place as a result of underground storage, not from the pipe which will convey it from there. The Bill does not deal with that aspect of it, but any pollution of that kind which takes places in the underground storage strata into which the gas will be pumped. I should make clear that the Minister initially would specify the requirement to give notice when the storage was authorised if there were the slightest risk of pollution to water supplies. He would not wait until the pollution had occurred. Perhaps my further explanation will go some way to reassure my noble friend that the point in his Amendment will be covered by the Minister in the circumstances I have outlined.

LORD BURDEN

My Lords, I cannot for the life of me understand why, in view of the importance of seeing that sources of drinking water for human beings and for animals are not polluted—and they can, of course, be polluted by the escape of gas into underground supplies of water which gradually creep into rivers and streams—the Minister should object to a notification. Surely there are not going to be many of these cases, but the matter ought not merely to be left to the gas authority. The gas authority not only have a responsibility to supply gas, but also have a responsibility to see that their commodity does not poison human beings and animals. I beg leave to withdraw the Amendment, and, if necessary, I will come back to the matter on Report stage.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

THE CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES (LORD MERTHYR)

My Lords, I am afraid that there is a mistake on the Marshalled List. The next three Amendments should be in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Champion.

LORD CHAMPION

My Lords, I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 21, line 22, after ("this") insert ("Part of this").—(Lord Champion.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD CHAMPION

My Lords, I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 22, line 16, after ("this") insert ("Part of this").—(Lord Champion.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD CHAMPION

My Lords, I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 22, line 17, after ("this") insert ("Part of this").—(Lord Champion.)

Clause 17, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 18 [Discontinuance of an underground gas storage]:

LORD CHAMPION

I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 23, line 31, after ("this") insert ("Part of this").—(Lord Champion.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 18, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 19 [Appointment of inspectors]:

LORD CHAMPION

I beg to move.

Amendments moved—

Page 24, line 19, at end insert ("this Part of").

Page 24,line 43, after ("this") insert ("Part of this").—(Lord Champion.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

Clause 19, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 20 to 22 agreed to.

Clause 23 [Assessment of compensation]:

LORD CHAMPION

I beg to move.

Amendments moved—

Page 26, line 19, after ("this") insert ("Part of this").

Page 26,line 43, after ("this") insert ("Part of this'').

Page 27, line 9, after ("this") insert ("Part of this").

Page 27,line 10, after ("this") insert ("Part of this").—(Lord Champion.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

Clause 23, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 24 [Special provisions as to payment of compensation]:

LORD CHAMPION

I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 27, line 37, after ("this") insert ("Part of this").—(Lord Champion.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 24, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 25 [Application to the Crown]:

LORD CHAMPION

I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 28, line 9, at end insert ("of this Part").—(Lord Champion.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 25, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 26 agreed to.

Clause 27 [Registration in local land charges register and General Register of Sasines]:

LORD CHAMPION

I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 30, line 1, after ("this") insert ("Part of this").—(Lord Champion.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 27, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 28 [Modification of Statutory Orders (Special Procedure) Act 1945]:

LORD CHAMPION moved to leave out Clause 28. The noble Lord said: Clause 28 modifies the Statutory Orders (Special Procedure) Act, 1945, in its application to orders made under Part II of the Bill which are subject to Special Parliamentary Procedure. As noble Lords will be aware, the Statutory Orders (Special Procedure) Bill which the House is to consider in Committee on Tuesday, June 22, contains a similar provision in Clause 1(5) which will modify the Act of 1945 in its application generally. Clause 28 of this Bill will therefore be redundant, and what I am asking the Committee to do here is to delete Clause 28. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Leave out Clause 28.—(Lord Champion.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 29 [Interpretation of Part II]

LORD CHAMPION

I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 32, line 30, after ("this") insert ("Part of this").—(Lord Champion.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 29, as amended, agreed to.

Remaining Clauses agreed to.

Schedule 1 [Amendments as respects functions of Gas Council]

LORD CHAMPION

This is a drafting Amendment. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 38, line 3, leave out ("Gas Act 1948") and insert ("principal Act").—(Lord Champion.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD CHAMPION

This is a drafting Amendment. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 38, line 15, after first ("the") insert ("said").—(Lord Champion.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Schedule 1, as amended, agreed to.

Schedule 2 [Storage authorisation orders]

LORD CHAMPION

I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 38, line 33, after ("this") insert ("Part of this").—(Lord Champion.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD CHAMPION moved, in paragraph (3) to leave out "under this Act". The noble Lord said: This Amendment may need a little explanation. Amendments 33 to 36 run together. Paragraphs 8(1) and 12(2) of the Schedule make it mandatory to hold a public inquiry if objection is duly made by anyone on whom notice has to be served under paragraph 7(3) or paragraph 12(1) of the Schedule; that is, when the gas authority formally applies to the Minister for the making of a storage authorisation order, or when the Minister proposes that his control under Clause 5 of underground operations in the vicinity of a storage should be applied over a wider area than had been proposed by the gas authority. Paragraphs 8(3) and 12(4) relieve the Minister of the obligation to order an inquiry, if he his satisfied that the objection relates exclusively to matters which can be dealt with by the Lands Tribunal on a claim for compensation under this Bill.

It is usual to include a provision of this kind in procedures of this nature, but in this case the words "under this Act" should not appear, because compensation may be payable by the gas authority not only under this Bill but also under another enactment. Thus when the gas authority compulsorily purchase land for boreholes they will do so under the enactments relating to compulsory purchase, and they will pay compensation under those enactments. The Amendments therefore remove these words in paragraphs 8(3) and 12(4). I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 41, line 37, leave out ("under this Act").—(Lord Champion.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD CHAMPION

I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 43, line 21, after ("this") insert ("Part of this").—(Lord Champion.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

LORD CHAMPION

I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 44, line 20, leave out ("under this Act".—(Lord Champion.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Schedule 2, as amended, agreed to.

Schedule 3 [Certificates as respects planning permission and grant of statutory licences to abstract water]

LORD CHAMPION

This is a drafting Amendment. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 49, line 14, leave out ("where") and insert ("of").—(Lord Champion.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Schedule 3, as amended, agreed to.

Remaining Schedules agreed to.

House resumed: Bill reported with Amendments.