HL Deb 06 July 1965 vol 267 cc1158-61
LORD ELTON

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what proportion of the registered sufferers from leprosy now in the United Kingdom are Afro-Asian immigrants; whether they have noted the reported statement of Dr. Cochrane, adviser on leprosy to the Ministry of Health, to the effect that, if health controls are not tightened, the disease is likely to spread in this country, and whether they propose to take any action on this advice.]

THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDERSECRETARY OF STATE FOR COMMONWEALTH RELATIONS AND FOR THE COLONIES (LORD TAYLOR)

My Lords, the proportion of registered sufferers from leprosy in England and Wales who are Afro-Asian immigrants is not known, but in all these cases, with one doubtful exception that is at present the subject of inquiry, the disease is believed to have been contracted abroad. My right honourable friend the Minister of Health is aware of Dr. Cochrane's reported statement. The figure of eight years attributed to Dr. Cochrane in the Press should have read "eighty years". It is Dr. Cochrane's considered view that the likelihood of acquiring leprosy in this country is almost negligible at present, but there is always a potential hazard, and the need for health control measures in relation to this and other diseases is kept constantly under review.

LORD ELTON

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that Answer, the second part of which, at any rate, is satisfactory. Of course the first part, as one knew, he really could not answer. The absence of statistics in respect of immigrants in this matter is of minor importance compared with their absence in respect of other aspects of immigration, and does the noble Lord realise how strange it will seem to future historians that a Government whose whole political creed is founded on a belief in the necessity for planning should be fumbling about with immigration—the gravest problem since the Industrial Revolution—without providing the necessary statistics?

LORD TAYLOR

My Lords, I think that that supplementary question refers more to the next Question than to this one.

LORD PEDDIE

My Lords, could my noble friend indicate the reason why there is no knowledge of the number of people who are suffering from leprosy in this country, whether or not it is a certifiable disease?

LORD TAYLOR

My Lords, the number is known: it is, in fact, 340. It is the number of Afro-Asia immigrants among that total which is not known.

BARONESS SUMMERSKILL

My Lords, in view of the fact that the number of notifications is so small, in proportion to the number of general notifications covering the country, why is it so difficult to find out the origin of a patient?

LORD TAYLOR

My Lords, it would present no difficulty at all to find out the origin of a patient, but it is thought wrong so to do.

SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS

Why?

LORD TAYLOR

Such information has no relevance at all. A number of these people are missionaries who have contracted the disease, and a number of them have been here for many years. To pick out the Afro-Asian immigrants from this group and treat them as a special group, and to start dividing statistics on racial lines, seems to me to be quite wrong.

VISCOUNT DILHORNE

My Lords, do I understand the noble Lord correctly: that, with one exception, all these were cases where it was thought that this disease had been contracted abroad? If that is so, would it not be possible to distinguish between those who are recent immigrants and those who are not?

LORD TAYLOR

The difficulty is that the incubation period for leprosy is up to five years.

LORD SEGAL

My Lords, could my noble friend say whether any certificate of clearance is required from a medical authority in the country of origin by intending immigrants before they are considered for entry into this country?

LORD TAYLOR

My Lords, as I have answered several times before, it has been thought extremely difficult to get in the countries of origin satisfactory clearance certificates that would have validity. That is why examinations of immigrants have been confined to the port of entry.

EARL FERRERS

My Lords, if there are only 340 people in this country suffering from leprosy, is it not possible to know precisely the origin of the disease and where the sufferers came from?

LORD TAYLOR

These facts are known to the technical people concerned with the disease, but I think it would be wrong for Her Majesty's Government to attempt to break down statistics of leprosy, or of any other diseases, by racial origin.

LORD DERWENT

My Lords, the noble Lord says it is known to the technical people. I think the important thing is, is it, or is it not, known to Her Majesty's Government when they are considering statistics of various kinds? What we want to know is whether Her Majesty's Government are going to ask for this information from the technical sources.

LORD TAYLOR

No, my Lords, I do not think it would be of any value to Us.

LORD BOSSOM

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that there are five societies in this country which endeavour to help leprosy cases all over the world, and tomorrow afternoon in this House there is going to be a film about leprosy under the auspices of an organisation whose chairman is in this House?

LORD TAYLOR

I was aware of that.

BARONESS HORSBRUGH

My Lords, would the noble Lord say whether it would not be possible to give the place of origin of each of the 340 who are now suffering? That would be making no racial distinction at all—to give the origin of each one.

LORD TAYLOR

My Lords, in order to do this it would be necessary to conduct a special inquiry, and it might indeed be necessary to have special legislative powers to get this information. These people are registered under the Public Health (Leprosy) Regulations, 1951, and there is a leprosy register which has been kept since 1951, so all the cases are known to the Minister of Health's advisers; and to make a special analysis of their origin would require certainly examining all these people, and I think would require special powers for Her Majesty's Government to obtain the information.

BARONESS HORSBRUGH

Did not the noble Lord say that the place of origin was known to a certain number of people?

LORD TAYLOR

Yes; I said it was known to the doctors in charge of them.

EARL FERRERS

My Lords, as Her Majesty's Government are reluctant to state the origin of these cases, would one be wrong in assuming that the majority are Afro-Asian immigrants?

LORD TAYLOR

I think the majority of them are persons of overseas origin; almost all of them, except one possible case, are among persons who have lived abroad for a considerable time. Whether they are Europeans who have lived abroad working in leper colonies, or Afro-Asians or West Indians I should not like to say.