HL Deb 17 February 1965 vol 263 cc489-90

2.50 p.m.

LORD WAKEFIELD OF KENDAL

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what diving machines are being built in the United Kingdom for use in undersea projects such as are now being carried out in America under the names of Turtle, Deepstar and Aluminant.]

THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR EDUCATION AND SCIENCE (LORD BOWDEN)

None to our knowledge, my Lords. I understand that the three vesels to which the noble Lord, Lord Wakefield of Kendal, has referred have been constructed or are under development by private firms in the United States of America.

LORD WAKEFIELD OF KENDAL

My Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for that reply, may I ask, is it not disappointing that this country is falling so far behind the United States of America in deep-water exploration? Does he not recollect that when I raised this matter in your Lordships' House recently the noble Lord, Lord Shackleton, said that he thought I was moving into very deep water indeed? Is it not clear that Her Majesty's Government are, perhaps, moving into deep-water directions which they did not intend, but are not moving in the very direction in which they ought to be moving and, indeed, are still splashing about in the shallows? Is the policy of Her Majesty's Government to hand over to America our future in deep-water exploration, as it appears that our future in the air has been handed over?

LORD BOWDEN

My Lords, that is rather a difficult question to answer immediately. But I feel that the best thing to tell your Lordships is that we in this country are spending rather more than £2 million on oceanography of one kind or another. This is more than is spent by any other country in the world, except America. As so often seems to be the case, the Americans are able to spend about ten times as much as we are. On the other hand, as the noble Lord has said, we have, after all, an interest in the sea and all that goes on in it, and it is hoped that our position will be sustained and that the Navy Department and the Ministry of Education and Science will be able to foster development of this kind in future.

EARL JELLICOE

My Lords, I was glad to hear what the noble Lord said in answer to the supplementary question. May I ask him whether the Government are proposing to give adequate representation to oceanography on the Environmental Sciences Research Council?

LORD BOWDEN

My Lords, indeed we are. It is remarkable that oceanography and the study of the earth are at this moment, after a tremendously long period of planned quiescence, going through what I can only describe as their golden age. It is important that seismology and oceanography should be studied, and we are taking account of this fact in our organisation which we are at the moment framing. To say that they are having their golden age is not, I think, an exaggeration. The whole subject is opening up in a wonderful way, and it is most important that our scientists, as well as those of other countries, should have an opportunity to play their proper part.