HL Deb 11 February 1965 vol 263 cc271-3

3.12 p.m.

LORD BOOTHBY

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether it is their intention to keep the Kray Brothers in prison for an indefinite period without trial.]

THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDERSECRETARY OF STATE, HOME OFFICE (LORD STONHAM)

My Lords, I understand that a magistrates' court has committed these men in custody for trial at the current session of the Central Criminal Court. Under Paragraph 12 of Schedule 1 to the Administration of Justice Act, 1964, the trial must begin not later than February 28 unless the court otherwise orders. This is not a matter in regard to which my right honourable friend has any responsibility.

LORD BOOTHBY

My Lords, I would only say, in response to that Answer, that I hold no brief at all for the Kray brothers, one of whom I have never met and the other of whom I have met on only two occasions in my life, last July. But I am on the record as having fought continuously—

SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS: Order, order!

LORD BOOTHBY

Why "order"? I am simply saying that I have fought against imprisonment—

SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS: Ask a question.

LORD BOOTHBY

I am going to ask the Lord Chancellor a question, because I am not interested in the activities of the Home Office, which have been characteristic in this case and have done infinite damage to the reputation of this country—

SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS: Order, order!

LORD BOOTHBY

My Lords, I am going to ask the Lord Chancellor a direct question. It is this: will he take a sharp and a hard look at our system in Scotland, where the procurators fiscal act under the directions of the Lord Advocate and where this kind of situation could not possibly arise?

VISCOUNT DILHORNE

My Lords, before the Lord Chancellor answers that question, may I ask the Leader of the House whether it is in accordance with the customs of this House to table a Question on a matter in respect of which the Government have no responsibilities at all, as has been stated, and which, according to to-day's Press, still remains sub judice?

LORD REA

My Lords, may I ask the Leader of the House whether he would agree that this is a leading question, is not in accordance with the tradition of this House, and is therefore to be regretted?

THE LORD PRIVY SEAL (THE EARL OF LONGFORD)

My Lords, I am sorry I was detained and was not here at the beginning of this part of Question Time. If I may give a direct answer first to the noble Viscount, Lord Dilhorne, I am informed that it is the responsibility of the Peer who asks the Question. The Table try to give advice but have no authority from the House to censor Questions. That is the official answer. Therefore, it rests with the Peer to ask the Question, and it rests with the Government whether they choose to reply to it.

LORD CONESFORD

My Lords, are all the Ministers aware that those who care most about human freedom have no desire whatever that the executive Government should interfere with the Judiciary in the administration of criminal justice?

THE EARL OF LONGFORD

I certainly agree with the noble Lord.

LORD BOOTHBY

My Lords, if this kind of Question is not allowed to be put on this kind of occasion in one or other House of Parliament, then we might as well pack up.

SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS: Order, order!

THE EARL OF LONGFORD

My Lords, I think the noble Lord will regret that intervention when he reads it in cold blood.

LORD SALTOUN

My Lords, just to keep the matter right, may I ask the Leader of the House whether it is not the case that every Question asked of the Government in this House is asked by permission of the House, and the House can always, at any moment, withhold its permission for the Question to be asked or answered? I think that is the correct position.

THE EARL OF LONGFORD

My Lords, answering on the spur of the moment, I should think that that is right, in the sense that anyone speaks with the permission of the House, and the House can always refuse to hear any speaker. But as I explained earlier, the responsibility rests with the Peer who puts the Question, and it would not ordinarily be for the Table to censor it.