§ 3.6 p.m.
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government under what powers the Secretary of Stale for Economic Affairs required information from certain industrial firms as to the reasons why they had recently increased prices for certain of their products; whether the Government will now publish the terms of the letters; and what use they intend to make of the replies.]
§ THE MINISTER WITHOUT PORTFOLIO (LORD CHAMPION)My Lords, in view of the concern felt by the Government about the numerous increases announced in food and other prices my right honourable friend, the Secretary of State for Economic Affairs, announced on January 4 his intention to invite representatives of the trade associations to explain why the increases were necessary. There was no question involved of powers or compulsion. The terms of the letters which went out from my right honourable friend the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food and from the Board of Trade varied slightly. In general, however, they drew attention to the importance of achieving stability in the general level of prices, of traders seeking to absorb increased costs through greater efficiency, and suggested meetings at which the basis of price increases made or contemplated might be discussed. I am glad to say that the trade associations approached, and their members, and have shown themselves most co-operative in this question o, f such great public interest. 1242 Until all the inquiries have been completed it is not possible to say whether further action is called for.
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, while we are all anxious to keep down prices, will the noble Lord not agree that it is the duty of Parliament to examine all methods by which it is intended to keep down prices? Will the noble Lord confirm or deny that letters have gone out, not only to trade associations, but also to individual firms? If this is so, is it not open to objection as being a private inquisition without the authority of Parliament; and ought not the Government to come down and obtain proposals in order to enable them to get the powers that they would require to make such inquiries? Also, as the noble Lord has not really answered the last point in the Question about the use to be made of the information, will he confirm that, in view of the long tradition that information rendered to the Government is treated as confidential, there can be no question of divulging the information so obtained?
§ LORD CHAMPIONMy Lords, the letters went out to all people who might be able to help the nation in this matter, There was no question of an inquisition, because, as I stressed in my original reply, the people concerned were invited to supply the information. Clearly, if you receive an invitation, you can reject it. The question whether some use can be made of such information in the future is a matter upon which at the moment discussions are going on. Good progress has been made in these discussions with both sides of industry on the details of the machinery. My right honourable friend the First Secretary of State hopes to make an announcement shortly about what has been agreed. I cannot, of course, anticipate his statement.
§ LORD MORRISON OF LAMBETHMy Lords, may I ask my noble friend this question? Is this not still a free country? Does not that freedom extend to the right of Her Majesty's Government politely to seek information from industry about certain matters in the public interest? Why should it be questioned that the Government have a right to ask questions? Is it not the case that the Government are not compelling anybody to answer, but are seeking information; and is it not the duty of good 1243 citizens, so far as they can, to supply that information?
§ LORD CHAMPIONMy Lords, I am grateful that I can make a very short reply to that, and the answer is, Yes, Sir.
§ VISCOUNT DILHORNEMy Lords, while recognising that the Government should get all information that will help them in the discharge of their responsibilities, I do not think the noble Lord has quite met the point raised by my noble friend in the last part of his Question. Presumably, the answers to these invitations were confidential. A lot of information which goes to the Board of Trade is always of a confidential nature. What my noble friend was asking with regard to this information, as I understood him, was whether the information which was given by these associations and by individual firms would continue to be completely confidential and would not be disclosed to the prejudice of any individual firm or anyone else. That, I think, was the point, and I do not think the noble Lord has dealt with it.
§ LORD CHAMPIONMy Lords, we recognise this, and I am sure it would be the wish of the Government to treat such information as confidential, as indeed is information received under the Statistics of Trade Act, under which an important questionnaire goes out and if the information received were not confidential difficulties might arise. I cannot answer this point specifically, although I think it is so. I will inquire and let the noble Lord know the answer to this specific point which both he and the noble and learned Viscount, Lord Dilhorne, have made.
§ VISCOUNT DILHORNEMy Lords, I am sorry to come back to this point, but I think it ought to be made clear publicly, beyond any doubt at all, because if there is any possibility of this information not being treated as confidential it might affect the replies to the invitations sent out. I merely rise to say that I do not think it will suffice to let us know; it ought to be made clear publicly that this information is, and will remain, confidential.
§ LORD CHAMPIONMy Lords, this is a point on which I am sure it would be possible to get the information to the 1244 public. If the noble Viscount, Lord Dilhorne, would put a Question down, I should be most happy to answer it. I recognise the importance of the subject.
§ BARONESS WOOTTON OF ABINGERMy Lords, is it not a fact that for many years every Government, of every complexion, has been collecting information from firms in a form in which the details of the information from individual firms are not disclosed, but are aggregated? Is this not the basis on which a great deal of valuable economic information is collected by every Government?
§ LORD CHAMPIONOf course that is the basis of the Statistics of Trade Returns which are sought and obtained from industry.
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, may I once again stress the fact that individual replies are not disclosed—
§ THE LORD PRIVY SEAL (THE EARL OF LONGFORD)My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether he proposes to put this in the form of a question? The noble Lord was rising to stress a point, and that cannot be regarded as a question.
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, if I may say so—I am subject to correction by the noble Earl—I think he was just a little previous in stopping me before I had even got my first sentence out. It is quite common in this House to make a preliminary observation before putting a question. May I stress the fact, as I said—
§ Several Noble Lords: No, no!
§ THE EARL OF LONGFORDThat is not a question.
§ LORD DRUMALBYNI am coming to the question.
§ THE EARL OF LONGFORDNo, that is not allowed.
§ LORD DRUMALBYNAll right. Is the noble Lord aware that the real point in this question is the confidentiality of the individual reply? Is the noble Lord further aware that some of the replies—I make no complaint about this—seem to have been given to the Press at the same time, and, as a result of the action that has been taken by the Secretary of State for Economic Affairs, some partial information has been given and has 1245 appeared in the form of a pamphlet already issued by the Labour Party?
§ LORD CHAMPIONMy Lords, if the noble Lord will put down a Question, as I suggested, I hope I shall be able to answer the points he has now raised.
§ LORD BYERSMy Lords, will the noble Lord appreciate that any action to reduce prices is most welcome to the public, and will Her Majesty's Government not be deterred in this matter?
§ LORD CHAMPIONMy Lords, we have No 1ntention at all of being deterred on so important a matter to the housewives and others of this country.
§ LORD CONESFORDDo housewives buy stamps?
§ LORD CHESHAMMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether he would inform the House why the reply to his noble friend Lord Morrison of Lambeth was, "Yes, Sir". instead of, "Yes, my Lords"?