HL Deb 15 December 1965 vol 271 cc701-3

2.50 p.m.

LORD FERRIER

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, in the light of the increasing popularity of car-carrier and car-sleeper trains, they will urge British Railways to improve conditions at termini:

  1. 1. by providing seats and/or shelter for passengers awaiting the unloading of their vehicles;
  2. 2. by introducing "First on, first off" unloading wherever possible.]

THE PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY, MINISTRY OF TRANSPORT (LORD LINDGREN)

My Lords, these matters are the responsibility of the Railways Board. I am sure that if the noble Lord cares to put his points to the Board they will let him have their views.

LORD FERRIER

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his reply. I find myself in a difficulty, because I should like to ask a supplementary question which was put in my mind by a noble friend who would have asked it if he had been here. Would it be possible, in marshalling these trains at the starting point, so to arrange the wagons that the passenger coaches are in the rear of the train, and not next to the engine, with the object, first, of improving the comfort of pas- singers and, secondly, of applying the principle of "first on, first off" at the point of arrival?

LORD LINDGREN

My Lords, that is an operational point if not a managerial one. Having made the responsibility clear, may I say that, as the noble Lord will know, the car-sleeper service is a comparatively new venture, so far as railways are concerned. In the early days of this service many wagons and old coach bogies had to be used, and the question of whether they were near the engine or the rear of the train was often related to the question of braking. Continuous braking is now an important factor. In so far as Scotland is concerned, they are to be privileged, because British Railways are now bringing in a new type of car transporter, the Cartic 4. These transporters are to go into operation in 1966 on the Anglo-Scottish routes, and they do give "first on, first off" offloading.

LORD AUCKLAND

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that conditions in England compare very unfavorably with those in Scotland? Is he further aware of the quality of the Holloway sidings from where the Perth car ferry leaves? There is no refreshment place, and the accommodation, as I have experienced myself, particularly for children, is very inadequate. Would he ask the Railways Board to look into this matter because this terminal has now been in operation for two or three years.

LORD LINDGREN

My Lords, the Caledonian Road terminal, or Holloway, as the noble Lord called it, is, of course, an old goods yard. A waiting room has been established there, and I have always understood that toilets were associated with that waiting room. But I will bring what the noble Lord has said to the attention of the Railways Board.

BARONESS WOOTTON OF ABINGER

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that many of us are quite satiated with hearing the views of British Railways on this and other questions? Could he take steps to ensure that they will abandon the principle that the customer is always wrong?

LORD LINDGREN

My Lords, I rather resent that, and I think it is entirely unfair, so far as the Railways Board are concerned. In relation to the difficulties with which they have to deal, they do their best.

BARONESS WOOTTON OF ABINGER

If my noble friend wishes to have the evidence I shall be happy to give it to him.

LORD LINDGREN

I shall be happy to consider it when it is supplied.

LORD NEWTON

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that I am very much in sympathy with his noble friend? Would the noble Lord be good enough himself to refer my noble friend Lord Ferrier's points to the British Railways Board, rather than leave it to my noble friend to do so?

LORD LINDGREN

My Lords, in order to get certain supplementary information I have, of course, been to the Railways Board. I am not surprised that the noble Lord should take the view he does. Noble Lords opposite are never enthusiastic in regard to a nationalized industry.

LORD FERRIER

My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether he appreciated that my Question was put down in the utmost sincerity, in an endeavor to assist operations?

LORD LINDGREN

Thank you. That is agreed.