§ 2.57 p.m.
§ LORD BALFOUR OF INCHRYEMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they can now make a statement on the progress of negotiations with the Danish Government aimed at limitation of the catch of Atlantic salmon off the Greenland coast; and whether they can confirm reports that, owing to scarcity of fish, a heavy drop in the numbers caught off Greenland during 1965 has occurred.]
§ THE JOINT PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE FOR SCOTLAND (LORD HUGHES)Her Majesty's Government have pursued with the Danish Government the request that, pending the results of scientific investigation, steps be taken to prevent an increase in the Greenland salmon catch, hut the Danish Government have felt unable, on the evidence so far available, to accede. It appears, however, that the Greenland salmon catch this year is likely to he considerably lower than last year; indeed, although full information is not yet available I understand the estimated catch up to the end of November was about half the corresponding figure for last year. This is probably the result of several factors, but I have no information to suggest that scarcity of fish is one of them.
§ LORD BALFOUR OF INCHRYEMy Lords, arising out of the Minister's reply, may I ask him whether the Government have in mind making further representations to the Danish Government in view of the fact that the smaller catch of fish this year is probably due, to use the Minister's words last July, to "the quite fantastic catch in 1964" of 1,400 metric tons as compared with two metric tons in 1957? Surely it is not quite good enough for the Government to say that they accede to the Danish Government's view that nothing could be done; but Her Majesty's Government could continue representations with even greater strength in the future than they have in the past.
§ LORD HUGHESMy Lords, the noble Lord has misunderstood the reply I gave. 603 I did not say that Her Majesty's Government acceded to the views of the Danish Government. I said that, on the evidence available, the Danish Government felt unable to accede to the request made by Her Majesty's Government. Possibly one of the reasons was that certain scientific investigations are going on, and I can assure the noble Lord that Her Majesty's Government have no intention of letting the matter rest on this basis and that we will use all the information as it emerges to impress upon the Danish Government the point of view already put forward.
§ LORD BALFOUR OF INCHRYEMy Lords, in the debate in your Lordships' House on July 5 last, did the Minister not say that Her Majesty's Government would make a request to the Danish members of the International Commission for the North-West Atlantic Fisheries for means of curbing future expansion while the investigations were proceeding? May I ask the Minister this? While he says that investigations are proceeding, what is happening meanwhile, having regard to that promise?
§ LORD HUGHESMy Lords, I am sorry, I must be reading this Answer very badly. I will read it again:
Her Majesty's Government have pursued with the Danish Government the request that, pending the results of scientific investigation, steps be taken to prevent an increase in the Greenland salmon catch. but the Danish Government have felt unable, on the evidence so far available, to accede.I must remind the noble Lord that the Danish Government is a sovereign Government, and while we can make requests to it we have no power to enforce our wishes upon it. We are endeavouring to persuade it that it is in the interest of all concerned that this practice off the Greenland coast should be diminished. I have said further that a scientific investigation is going on, and in this we have had very full co-operation from the Danish authorities. It is hoped that, when the evidence is all forthcoming, the Danish Government may be persuaded to take a different decision from the one which they presently take.
THE DUKE OF ATHOLLMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord what steps are being taken in this country to assist in this scientific investigation, such as an extension of tagging schemes and so on?
§ LORD HUGHESMy Lords, up to the present, an average of 15,000 salmon a year have been tagged in Scottish rivers: that is the average over the last five years. It is planned in 1966 to tag 40,000 and to extend our operations to a larger number of rivers.
§ LORD BOOTHBYMy Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether Her Majesty's Government will bear in mind that this problem of over-fishing, which is no longer confined to the North Sea but is gradually extending over the whole world, could become very menacing in ten years time? Will they keep a sharp eye on the problem and bear in mind the possibility, should the necessity arise, of summoning an International Conference, not only with ourselves and Denmark but with all the Powers that are interested and concerned?
§ LORD HUGHESMy Lords, I can assure the noble Lord that this is a matter which is very present in the minds not only of Her Majesty's Government but also of a number of other Governments which are as interested as we are in the conservation of fish supply. The matter is not intermittently but constantly before the attention of the various international fishing bodies.
LORD SALTOUNMy Lords, in view of what the noble Lord has promised, will Her Majesty's Government pay particular attention to home waters? Are they aware, that whereas twenty years ago if you wanted to catch a breakfast in the Minch you had only to drop a hook over the side, to-day you can keep the hook in all day and not even get a small breakfast?
§ LORD HUGHESMy Lords, it is not for me to speculate on the reasons that people do not get results, but I gather that fishermen constantly have convincing reasons why they have no catch.