HL Deb 08 December 1965 vol 271 cc290-2

2.43 p.m.

LORD MERTHYR

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether it is a fact that one who keeps a dog cannot obtain a licence to do so for a full period of twelve months; and, if so, whether they will take steps to amend the law to enable those who wish to renew their licences on the same date annually to do so without committing a crime.]

LORD SORENSEN

My Lords, the noble Lord asked in the first part of his Question whether it is a fact that one who keeps a dog cannot obtain a licence for a full period of twelve months. It seems to be not a fact. On the contrary, I understand that at the present time licences are issued to be taken on the first day of each month and run for twelve months thereafter. The noble Lord therefore, if he does not mind my saying so, seems to base his question on a false assumption. Under Section 9(1) of the Dog Licence Act 1959, a dog licence runs for twelve months from the first day of the month on which it is taken out. This provision does not seem unreasonable.

LORD MERTHYR

My Lords, may I say to the noble Lord℄

SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS

No!

LORD MERTHYR

My Lords, my question is, may I say to the noble Lord that since his version of the facts differs from mine, I will say no more this afternoon, but in due time I will either apologise to him or put down this Question again?

LORD SORENSEN

Well, my Lords, I am sure that the noble Lord's apology will be well received and I am sure that he has every intention to be helpful. If, on the other hand, we can be helpful, we shall certainly be so. If he will provide us with the exact contents of his complaint and grievance, I will see that it is looked into.

LORD NEWTON

My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord this question? If I take out a licence on December 31, when will it expire?

LORD SORENSEN

My Lords, it could expire on January 1, but I do not think that it would.

LORD NEWTON

No, it would not.

LORD SORENSEN

I should imagine that it would be twelve months from December 1. That is my assumption, but I will ask the Financial Secretary to the Treasury to ponder this matter.

LORD NEWTON

My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether he would be good enough to look into this, because it seems to me probable that he will find that he will have to apologise to the noble Lord, Lord Merthyr, rather than that the noble Lord, Lord Merthvr, apologise to him?

LORD SORENSEN

Well, my Lords, we will apologise to one another.

LORD AILWYN

My Lords, arising out of that question and answer, may I ask whether the noble Lord is aware that the whole system of dog taxation is in urgent need of examination and overhaul, particularly in regard to the enforcement of the law regarding licences and the penalty for evasion?

LORD SORENSEN

My Lords, I can simply say that I will certainly bring this matter to the Financial Secretary to the Treasury for very careful consideration, and no doubt we shall have a report in due course.

LORD AIREDALE

My Lords, as one who, naturally, is most keenly interested in all matters affecting dogs and the proper procedure in regard to them, may I ask whether it does not follow from what the Minister has told us that, upon whatever day a dog licence expires, it expires immediately before midnight? A dog licence cannot be renewed in advance, so does it not follow, therefore, that the only people who renew a dog licence without committing a technical offence are those who go at midnight either to the General Post Office or to the branch office in Trafalgar Square which I understand is the only other post office always open? Is not this rather bad luck on law-abiding citizens who live in places like Aberdeen?

LORD SORENSEN

My Lords, I can only assure the noble Lord that when I was asked to reply to this question I had not the slightest idea that it was so pro, found and complex. I will try to solve the mystery. May I just add that it seems to me that the same criticism could be applied to the issuing of licences for motor cars.

SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS

No.

LORD SORENSEN

Here again, then, my Lords, I think I had better withdraw while the going is good.

LORD BROCKET

My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether he will consider taxing dogs and cars in future according to size?

LORD SORENSEN

My Lords, that again I will pass on for due reflection by the Cabinet.