§ 3.38 p.m.
§ LORD WALSTONMy Lords, With your Lordships' permission, I should like to repeat a Statement being made by my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary in another place on his visit to Moscow. The Statement reads as follows:
" I had talks with Mr. Mikoyan and Mr. Kosygin and several meetings with Mr. Gromyko, and I am arranging for the communiqué, which I issued jointly with Mr. Gromyko, to be placed in the Library of the House.
" The international subject to which we paid most attention was the proposal for a non-proliferation treaty, and on the Soviet side this was linked with the question of nuclear arrangements in NATO. We all agreed that a nonproliferation treaty was necessary and that it was important to conclude one as soon as possible. Mr. Gromyko maintained the view that arrangements to associate non-nuclear members of NATO with discussions and decisions on the use of nuclear weapons themselves constituted dissemination and therefore presented an obstacle to a non-dissemination treaty. I explained 26 that any NATO arrangements would be consistent with non-dissemination and would, indeed, contribute towards it. Despite our differences of view, we agreed that discussions on the text of a non-dissemination treaty should be pursued.
" In our discussions about European security, the question of German reunification was naturally prominent. I regret that the Soviet approach to the question of German reunification remains widely divergent from our own.
" Similarly, I cannot report that we were able to make any progress over the steps to bring peace to Vietnam, though I have no doubt that the Soviet Government are as anxious as we are that the fighting should be brought to an end there.
" The communiqué records that we had some discussion of the United Nations. I urged the importance of pursuing a constructive line there and of not trying to turn the Organisation into a platform for disruptive propaganda.
" Among the bilateral questions we discussed, I laid particular emphasis, in my talk with Mr. Kosygin, on the need for the Soviet Union to increase its purchases from this country and thus to reduce the present imbalance.
" I also discussed with Mr. Kosygin the question of a meeting between him and the Prime Minister. We made progress on this, and I hope that it will be possible to give further information before very long.
" We also signed a Consular Convention which will regulate the Consular relations between the two countries and which provides for access by Consuls to their nationals who are in trouble with the authorities.
" I spoke to Mr. Kosygin and Mr. Gromyko about Mr. Brooke. Since then our Consul has been allowed to see Mr. Brooke, for the first time since August.
" I did not have any illusions, when I went to Moscow, about the possibility of making quick progress on the difficult international problems. I hoped that each side would listen carefully to what the other had to say, and would 27 then decide to go away and think it over. I think that is what happened. The communiqué describes the talks as businesslike. This is an accurate description. The fact that both sides found the talks very useful is reflected in the final paragraph of the communiqué which registers our agreement that there should be periodical meetings."
That, my Lords, is my right honourable friend's Statement.
THE DUKE OF DEVONSHIREMy Lords, I am most grateful, as I am sure noble Lords on all sides of the House are, to the noble Lord, Lord Walston, for repeating that Statement. I hope he will not think me either ungrateful or ungracious if I say simply that, as a result of the Statement, we can be thankful for small mercies. The Foreign Secretary has made it quite clear that he did not expect a great deal from his visit to Moscow and, equally, that a great deal was not achieved. Nevertheless, we should be grateful for what progress was made.
It is comforting and reassuring that we and Russia are agreed that a treaty of non-dissemination is needed, and that discussions on how to reach an acceptable text should continue. Equally, the Consular Agreement must also be a small yet further step towards the betterment of relations between the two countries. In regard to the Foreign Secretary's efforts to help Mr. Brooke in his plight, all of us, not least on humanitarian grounds, must welcome these very warmly.
I think there is little one can say about the Statement, and certainly it raises no controversial issues. On behalf of these Benches I would congratulate the Foreign Secretary on the initiative he took in going to Moscow. The fact that he had the courage to go when little could be expected makes his expedition all the more praiseworthy. The final sentence of the Statement says that discussions are to continue. It is a very unoriginal thought, but nevertheless true, that the more conversations which take place between our two countries, the better. I would therefore sum up by thanking the Foreign Secretary, and the Government for small progress; but progress it was.
LORD REAMy Lords, from these Benches I should like to echo those remarks, but I would give them a rather less tepid welcome than the noble Duke did. I think that our Foreign Secretary, who has done such good work in many directions, has made a constructive impact by this visit to Russia, and we should all be very grateful to him. May I now ask one or two supplementary questions? First, I would ask whether the Foreign Secretary discussed the various financial agreements and claims still outstanding between our countries. Then I would ask whether he discussed the difficulty between India and Pakistan and whether Russia should join with us in coming to some helpful conclusion. Finally, did he go into the question of welcoming more travel between the two countries and more exchange of population, even in marriage between Russians and Britons?
§ LORD WALSTONMy Lords, like the noble Duke we, too, are thankful for small mercies, even when they come from the Benches Opposite, at least so far as foreign affairs are concerned. Occasionally we find praise or approval from that side somewhat embarrassing, but so far as our relations with other countries are concerned, we welcome his kind words, and also the rather warmer words of the noble Lord, the Leader of the Liberal Party. I would certainly agree with the noble Lord and endorse, if I may, his praise for my right honourable friend and his efforts. I am quite certain that the personal contacts which my right honourable friend is making are of enormous value in all these tricky international problems. If there can be understanding between Ministers as human beings, rather than as representatives of Government, we shall have gone a long way.
With regard to the three specific questions put by the noble Lord, Lord Rea, the short answer to each of them is "Yes". There were discussions—short discussions—on the financial claims and it was agreed that the negotiations should continue. There were also short talks on the problems of India and Pakistan, and my right honourable friend emphasised the hope that if such a meeting could be arranged it would lead to an improvement in relations between India and Pakistan. He also spoke with Mr. Gromyko 29 about visits of Soviet citizens to this country, and vice versa, and emphasised how important it is to the growth of understanding between our countries that these exchange visits, which have taken place to an increasing extent over the past years, should continue, and increase; and, in particular, my right honourable friend expressed the hope that there might be a happy outcome of a number of cases in which a British citizen and a Soviet citizen wished to get married.