§ 2.48 p.m.
§ LORD BARNBYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what is the total commitment, since independence, for advances and subventions to Kenya; also, what are the terms for the latest subvention just announced.]
§ THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDERSECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (LORD WALSTON)My Lords, the total commitment since independence, in cash and kind, and 275 including cancelled loans, is about £62 million. Of this, about £53 million was included in a programme of assistance to Kenya which has come to be known as the "Independence Settlement", and was agreed on June 3, 1964. The balance of assistance is about £9 million. Of this, £365,000, which represents the latest subvention, will be mainly by means of a 30-year loan with a waiver of interest for the first five years and a five-year grace period on capital repayments.
§ LORD BARNBYMy Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his reply. Does it not seem that the present state of our finances is not such as to justify long-term loans free of interest? Secondly, with regard to the total sums, which seem quite large in relation to Kenya's population, would it be possible to publish some information which would indicate what these total grants amount to per capita, and what is the estimated national income per capita of Kenya. May I also explain to the noble Lord that my Question was put down prior to the publication of this document, which only appeared to-day? From the two relevant schedules it seems that the figure is £24 million in the present financial year; and I seem to recollect that two years ago there was a report of the figure being £57 million. Perhaps the noble Lord could tie them up.
§ LORD WALSTONMy Lords, I think any noble Lord or other person who is sufficiently interested in this question can acquaint himself with the total population of Kenya—I am afraid I am ignorant as to the accurate figure—and one could then work out the aid per capita that is being given and has been given in the past.
With regard to the way in which this aid has been made up, as the noble Lord will realise from my original Answer, a great part of this £53 million was part of the original Independence Settlement, and the full details of that were given by the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations in another place on June 3, 1964. If he would like to look that up in the relevant records he will find exactly how that figure was made up.
§ LORD OAKSHOTTMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord two quick ques 276 tions? First of all, in regard to this White Paper and the interesting figures of loans and grants to Kenya, shown on page 58. Is it possible to break down these figures? For example, are the purchase and resettlement schemes for the "mixed" farmers included; and, if so, how much were they? Secondly, a general point: ought we not, in a time of financial stringency like this, however much we desire to help all the underdeveloped countries of the world, to give priority to countries in the Commonwealth?
§ LORD WALSTONMy Lords, I assume, from the last point of the noble Lord, that he is in favour of our giving priority to Kenya, as a member of the Commonwealth, and therefore supports substantial help to Kenya. The breakdown of this assistance, I can say offhand, is very largely for various forms of land settlement: the last amount of £365,000 is purely for the compassionate cases, amounting at the moment to 28, and the previous amounts, other than the orginal £53 million, were entirely for one form of land settlement or another. With regard to the details of the £53 million, while I could give them to the noble Lord, I would suggest that, as it is a complicated matter, he should look up the actual Hansard reference of June 3 of last year, in which he will see that a large part of it is undertaken for some form of land settlement; some of it is by way of cancelled debts and some of it by way of assistance to British personnel and pension schemes, some of it a notional figure for military equipment and buildings left behind. It is a complicated question better read than talked about.
§ LORD OAKSHOTTMy Lords, I am very much obliged to the noble Lord. He will realise that the last column on page 58 is the estimate for 1964–65. I am wondering whether these schemes will be included in that estimated figure and how much they will be. I am quite prepared to look up the figures that have been given.