§ 3.9 p.m.
§ LORD WAKEFIELD OF KENDALMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are now in a position to make a statement von the trials carried out of alternately offset double or single white line; on a straight road of three lanes.]
§ LORD LINDGRENMy Lords, the trials with alternate offset double white lines on straight lengths of three-lane roads were started in June on 4½ miles of the A.1 and are being extended to four other stretches of road, giving a total of some 24 miles. But these trials have not been in progress long enough for firm conclusions to be drawn. The indications so far are that there has been an encouraging reduction in the number of accidents but that congestion during busy periods has increased.
§ LORD WAKEFIELD OF KENDALMy Lords, while thanking the Minister for that reply, I would ask whether, in 930 view of the encouraging reduction in accidents, the Government would consider having a much wider trial on other roads, in other parts of the country, in order to obtain more information and more experience more quickly. Does not the Minister think that any action of this nature which will in any way reduce road accidents is very worthwhile? Does he not also think that, even if perhaps there might be some extra congestion, that would not matter if the situation in which injury or death result could in some way be ameliorated?
§ LORD LUCAS OF CHILWORTHMy Lords, before the noble Lord answers that question, may I point out to him, as he has told the House that the evidence for this rather small experiment is not conclusive, that the practical experience over ten to fifteen years of all practical road users is that three-lane traffic roads are a death-trap? Why does he keep on delaying by having more experiments which are not necessary? What we want, my Lords—and I would say this to the Minister—is not more experiments but more action. The noble Lord who asked this Question is right: there is only one way to get over congestion, and that is not to have three traffic lanes but four traffic lanes. But so long as three-lane roads continue, the suggestion in this Question is the only practical solution.
§ LORD LINDGRENMy Lords, with the greatest respect, we have had from the noble Lord, Lord Lucas of Chilworth, a statement of opinion rather than a question. But in reply to the noble Lord who put the original Question, I would say that we are, in fact, considering a much wider series of experiments in different parts of the country and in totally different traffic conditions; in the tidal flow of traffic and on roads which have peculiar peaks of holiday traffic and the rest. The experiment could be extended.
§ VISCOUNT BRENTFORDMy Lords, in order to overcome the difficulty experienced by my noble friend Lord Lucas of Chilworth, may I ask the Minister whether he does not consider that the three-lane system of traffic on certain roads is by far and away the most dangerous method of conducting traffic ever conceived by the wit of man in this world? Secondly, may I ask the noble 931 Lord when he expects that the conclusion of this experimentation will take place, in order that we may see some action taken by the Government in order to eliminate three-lane traffic?
§ LORD LINDGRENMy Lords, taking the first part of the question, may I say that I made a statement myself in the House in reply to an interjection by the noble Earl, Lord Dudley, during the transport debate. It was entirely my own opinion from my experience as a motorist. I understand, however, from the brief provided by the Ministry that the three-lane road does not have a greater frequency of accidents; but what is most worrying is that the severity of accidents there is much greater. In so far as the period of the experiment is concerned, I would say that at the moment the Ministry think it will take about eighteen months' experience of the various types of traffic build-up on these roads before they can make a firm decision.
§ LORD MONTAGU OF BEAULIEUMy Lords, could the noble Lord say why he thinks that further experiments are necessary, when this system has been in use on the roads in France and other Continental countries and America for years? I cannot see why further experiments are needed when the Ministry can get all the information from overseas Ministries of Transport.
§ LORD LINDGRENMy Lords, perhaps the most extensive experiments have been in Italy, and those results are being taken into account. But traffic conditions in this country are a little different from those operating on the roads in Italy.
§ VISCOUNT BRENTFORDMy Lords, does the noble Lord really mean that for eighteen months during the period of further experimentation this danger of the three-lane ways on roads is to continue, and that we shall then, presumably, have to look forward to at least another year while the Ministry are considering what shall be done about it?
§ LORD LINDGRENMy Lords, this is not only a question of danger on three-lane roads. That is admitted. But the experiment, even so far, shows that there are disadvantages, in so far as offset 932 double white lines are concerned, where double white lines converge to single, and there are opportunities for accidents, particularly on straight roads where speed is involved. It is the factor of speed when moving from two-lane into single-lane that the Ministry are considering.
LORD REAMy Lords, would the noble Lord agree that where the road is not wide enough to enable it to be transformed from a three-lane to a four-lane road it would be better to transform it into a two-lane road, with an alternate offset single or double white line?
§ LORD LINDGRENPart of the problem is that the standard width of a three-lane road is 33 feet. Many of the older ones are only 30 feet wide. This can create problems, particularly when a motorist or a lorry is pulling out to pass a cyclist.