§ 2.39 p.m.
§ LORD COLWYNMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are aware of the vast amount of traffic carried in each direction by the A.30 road at peak hours over the level crossing at Sunningdale Station; and whether, in view of the prolonged delays and the accidents caused by overtaking after the gates have been opened, they intend to build an overpass or underpass to carry the A.30 at this point.]
§ THE PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY, MINISTRY OF TRANSPORT (LORD LINDGREN)My Lords, my right honourable friend is aware of the delays to road traffic at this level crossing. His Divisional Road Engineer is discussing with the British Railways Board the possibility of an alternative type of barrier to reduce the inconvenience and delays to road users. For the longer-term, my right honourable friend, in consultation with the Surrey County Council, is considering the provision of an overpass at the crossing. Your Lordships will appreciate that the amount of traffic using A.30 will be very substantially reduced when the London-Basingstoke motorway is built.
§ LORD COLWYNMy Lords, may I thank the noble Lord very much for his Answer, but ask him how long this work will take? If you go on the Chobham Road, which is the B.383, you have a bridge over the railway. Would it not be possible to run a small by-pass (if you like to call it that), of only half a mile, which would branch off the main A.30 and join it again at the other side of the railway bridge?
§ LORD LINDGRENMy Lords, there are two proposals: first, a flyover, which 737 is estimated to cost £250,000, and then a by-pass, which would be much more expensive. I am not at the moment in a position to state its actual cost. The present emphasis on a flyover rather than a by-pass.
§ LORD LUCAS OF CHILWORTHMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the consultations, to which he referred, between the Ministry of Transport and the Surrey County Council with reference to this level crossing have been going on, to my certain knowledge, for the last forty years, and that the answer has perpetually been given in precisely the same way? Also, is the noble Lord not aware that at the present time the A.30 road is the main artery from London to Southampton Docks? If we are to be the export-minded nation we are always told we should be, when the noble Lord tells this House that the proposal will not really be necessary when the Basingstoke by-pass is finished I would ask him to reconsider that: because, again from my personal experience, that will not he for years and years. Will the noble Lord use his best endeavours to get this underpass or overpass put lather higher on the priority list than it was forty years ago?
§ LORD LINDGRENMy Lords, in my younger days I remember a music hall song about forty years, and it was "not a day too long".
§ LORD LUCAS OF CHILWORTHIf the noble Lord Rill forgive me, his memory is at fault: it was "not a day too much".
§ LORD LINDGRENIn so far as the present is concerned, arrangements for the London—Basingstoke motorway have, of course, been made. The negotiations in regard to acquisition of land and so forth that are necessary are going on, and it is expected that work will start in the early 1970s.
§ SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS: Oh, no!
§ LORD LINDGRENIt will not be completed until then. So far as an underpass is concerned, that is not a consideration at the moment, because of 738 drainage difficulties and the fact that an underpass would interfere with the frontages of buildings and shops in the vicinity. As to these negotiations, quite frankly, there is the old argument of who is going to pay. The old railway companies, the Transport Executive and the Railways Board have said it is not their responsibility; and, equally, the Ministry and the County Council argue as to how much they and others are going to pay.
§ LORD LUCAS OF CHILWORTHMy Lords, does the noble Lord not realise that the answer he has given me only gives point to my contention? While all these people are arguing as to who is going to make the initial payment, in the last analysis it will come out of the pockets of the taxpayer, and it is with the taxpayers' interest that we are concerned. I do not agree with the noble Lord that we can simply wait complacently until the 1970s before we free a main artery from London to Southampton Docks from this incubus we have suffered for forty years.
§ LORD LINDGRENMy Lords, I can only repeat that the previous Administration made the preliminary arrangements for the London—Basingstoke motorway. One can argue that it is too late, but the present Administration has been in office for four weeks and the previous one was in office for thirteen years. They made the original arrangements and, as I think I said in answer to a Question last week, it is tragically true that from the conception of a road scheme to the start of work takes almost five years.
§ LORD COLWYNMy Lords, will the noble Lord consider that railway bridge over the small side road, because I have facts and figures from the Guildford police that there were 48 accidents on the road this year, which I think is a very large number, considering the amount of traffic that road carries.
§ LORD LINDGRENMy Lords, I made inquiries in regard to that matter and, so far as the police are concerned, it is not considered a spot in which bad accidents are very frequent. But we will most certainly look into it.