HL Deb 23 March 1964 vol 256 cc1059-62

3.35 p.m.

LORD DERWENT

My Lords, with your Lordships' permission, I should like now to make a statement which my right honourable friend the Home Secretary is making in another place. I will use his own words:

"A White Paper setting out the Government's proposals is being published to-day; copies are in the Vote Office.

"Briefly, the Secretary of State for Scotland and I propose to set up a Board composed of persons of appropriate legal experience, which will make ex gratia payments of compensation from monies provided through a grant-in-aid. Compensation will take the form of lump sum payments and, subject to certain provisos, will be assessed on the basis of Common Law damages for personal injuries."

In repeating this statement I now notice that there might be some doubt in your Lordships' minds about what this statement is about. It is about compensation for victims of crimes of violence. If I may, I will go on from where I left off.

"The White Paper sets out the procedure for making applications, and for enabling an applicant to claim a judicial hearing before three members of the Board if he is not satisfied with the initial decision. The Board will be expected to act in accordance with the principles and procedure laid down in the White Paper, if it is approved by Parliament, but subject to that will be fully responsible for deciding in each case whether compensation should rightly be paid, and, if so, what the amount should be.

"When honourable Members have had time to study the White Paper, the House will no doubt wish to debate it. Then, if the scheme is approved, it will be brought into operation as speedily as possible. It will not require legislation.

"This is an experimental scheme. It is also a pioneering one. Apart from New Zealand, no other country in the world has established arrange- ments for compensating the victims of crimes of violence, and therefore there is virtually no past experience to draw upon. I believe that the scheme in the White Paper, while it includes essential safeguards against malicious abuse, will be found to fill a need which the public conscience has increasingly recognised."

EARL ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGH

My Lords, we all know that this issue has been raised on a number of occasions in both Houses of Parliament, and no doubt there is a good case to be made out for it. We have not been able to read the White Paper yet, and I have not had any opportunity of getting any legal advice on it. It seems to me a little strange that no legislation will be required. We are going to have legislation passed in the House by White Paper, so far as I can see. We will have a study made of the White Paper and, whilst there is no doubt a great deal of good in the proposal, we may want to have a debate on it.

LORD DERWENT

My Lords, in reply to the noble Earl the Leader of the Opposition, may I say that the reason why legislation is not necessary is that this is an experimental scheme and the payments will be ex gratia? Of course, the White Paper can come into force only if Parliament approves it.

LORD OGMORE

My Lords, will the noble Lord inform the House whether the person who commits an act of violence will be obliged to make any compensation under the scheme?

LORD DERWENT

No, my Lords; it may not even be known who has committed the act of violence.

LORD CHAMPION

My Lords, did the noble Lord mean by "approval" that the House will approve a Resolution approving the White Paper?

LORD DERWENT

I think that that will be the procedure.

EARL ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGH

My Lords, would the noble Lord be able to tell us who is to be in charge of the administration of this scheme? I am not quite clear from the statement.

LORD DERWENT

There will be a board of members with legal qualifications, under a chairman who will be a lawyer experienced in this type of work. He will be in charge of the board. When a case comes up for examination, a member of the board will examine the case, and if the person who has suffered is not satisfied with the compensation he gets (if he does get it), then he can appeal to a full beard of three members.

LORD OGMORE

My Lords, without seeing the White Paper it is difficult to comment very much, but is it not extraordinary that if the perpetrator of the crime is known he should not have to make some compensation? Why should the taxpayer alone have to compensate the injured party?

LORD DERWENT

My Lords, I should prefer the noble Lord to read the White Paper, but I do not think this point really arises. The public and both Houses of Parliament asked that some form of payment should be made for those suffering from crimes of violence. I do not think we can, without legislation, go further than that. What we are anxious to do is to get this, what is, in effect, experimental scheme into force at the earliest possible moment, and then how the scheme works will be carefully watched before we take any further steps that may, or may not, be necessary.

LORD LATHAM

My Lords, inasmuch as the board are required to assess the measure of damages, would it not be well to have an accountant on the board?

LORD DERWENT

Perhaps the noble Lord will look at the White Paper and then raise this question. The noble Earl the Leader of the Opposition says that he will want to debate the whole subject.

LORD LATHAM

I gather the noble Lord to say that the board will consist of legal personnel, and not otherwise.

LORD DERWENT

My Lords, the board will be able to call on an accountant if they want him to give advice.

LORD LATHAM

They could do the same in regard to legal information.

EARL ALEXANDER OF HILLSBOROUGH

My Lords, I am obliged by the answers the noble Lord has given. We must come back to this matter after we have studied the White Paper, and especially whether a board of this far-reaching nature—and it may be far-reaching—is to be appointed by a Minister exclusively; what the authority is to be; whether a mere Resolution of the House or legislation will be required, which I think is one of the outstanding things. If legislation is required, then the point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Ogmore, might perhaps be adequately debated.