WHITE FISH INDUSTRY (GRANTS FOR FISHING VESSELS AND ENGINES) (AMENDMENT) SCHEME 1964. (Hansard, 3 March 1964)

THE JOINT PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY, MINISTRY OF AGRICULTURE, FISHERIES AND FOOD (LORD ST. OSWALD)
My Lords, I beg to move that the White Fish Industry (Grants for Fishing Vessels and Engines) (Amendment) Scheme, 1964, which was laid before your Lordships' House on February 4, be approved. The main purpose of this Amendment to the Grants Scheme which was approved by Parliament in 1962 is to bring in freezer-trawlers, but the opportunity has been taken to increase the grant ceiling for other fishing trawlers and to make it quite clear that the White Fish Authority has to approve any application for grant before the work is commenced.
Your Lordships may remember that the present scheme for grants, introduced in 1962, extended the provision to distant-water vessels. It was, however, then agreed with the industry and the 12 White Fish Authority that there should be some limited replacement of the older distant-water vessels by modern conventional types of trawlers on a scrap-and-build basis. In the meantime the Government agreed to help experiments to see what newer types of vessel could be introduced. The freezer-trawler is one type of vessel that has been so helped. The Government think that the time has now come for the introduction of rather more freezers than would have been possible under the experimental scheme. Freezer-trawlers could, of course, be given grant assistance under the existing scheme but the maximum amount of grant payable is only £50,000, whereas these vessels may cost something like £500,000. This would mean that the rate of grant would be out of all proportion to the rate of grant on other trawlers. This scheme therefore provides grant for freezer-trawlers at the normal rate of 25 per cent., but with a ceiling of £110,000, which is about 25 per cent. of the more costly of these vessels.
I would emphasise to the House that these trawlers cannot be the whole answer to the industry's problem, but the Government think that it would be desirable to encourage a replacement of some older vessels by freezer-trawlers in order to have more experience of the economics of their operation, and particularly of the economics of the market of frozen fish. I am sure your Lordships will welcome this attempt to carry the modernisation of the fleet a stage further by the inclusion of freezer-trawlers, and I hope that your Lordships will give your approval to this Scheme.

§ LORD WISE
My Lords, this particular Scheme has already been passed by the Special Orders Committee as one that can be passed by the House without special attention. For that reason I do not propose to be very lengthy in what I have to say in regard to it. The matter was fully dealt with in another place. A Prayer was tabled for annulment of the Order, but was not moved after the explanations given by the Minister. During the last few years we have had many Orders in regard to 13 White Fish, and this Order, as I understand it, is simply an interim measure which may last for six months. After that time, as a result of various suggestions which have been made and of various recommendations of a certain committee, the Government may decide to bring in some permanent measure in regard to this particular branch of the fishing industry.
It is important, I think, that we should have a properly and fully equipped fishing industry for this country, and the introduction of freezer-trawlers, which this Order envisages, may help to this end. There is just one point I wish to make—and I think it is a material one. In our last debate on these Orders we started to talk about the building of trawlers in foreign shipyards. I hope that these freezer-trawlers can be built and equipped in our own shipyards, rather than in shipyards overseas. In that connection, I wonder whether the Minister could inform your Lordships how many trawlers have been built overseas in the last year or in the last period, and how many grants have been made to the owners of trawlers which have been built overseas. I mention this because I understand that in my own area the provision of fishing vessels is very slow, and that orders are not being received. So much so, that the shipyards themselves are seeking new means of obtaining orders in other directions.
I am wondering also what the position is in regard to Scotland. I cannot speak for Scotland, and I hope that one of the Scottish Peers present may have something to say in regard to the Scottish aspect of this particular Order. I understand that the Scottish Trawler Owners' Association have disagreed with the Order, and I am wondering if the Minister can tell your Lordships whether any fresh agreement has been arrived at in regard to the Scottish end of this industry.

LORD ST. OSWALD
My Lords, I am grateful for the general commendation given to this Order by the noble Lord. To the best of my belief—and I am pretty sure I am right in assuring him of this—up to the present, no grant-aid has been given to any type of trawler built abroad. But I would remind him that, under our agreement, 14 we have to abide by the rules of GATT, and it would be difficult for us to give an absolute, rigid undertaking to exclude all foreign-built trawlers from grant-aid; but no such aid has yet been given.
Then, the noble Lord asked about the Scottish trawler owners' attitude to this scheme. He is quite right in saying that they did not agree to the terms of the scheme, mainly, I understand, because they were more interested in subsidies than in actual grants towards building the ships; but, in view of the interests concerned, we decided to present the Scheme to Parliament notwithstanding.