HL Deb 24 June 1964 vol 259 cc189-90

2.36 p.m.

LORD WAKEFIELD OF KENDAL

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they can now announce the date when unrestricted public access will be given to the public on and in the Waters of Thirlmere and Hawes-water in the Lake District National Park for recreational purposes similar to that enjoyed by the public on and in the Waters of Windermere and Ullswater.]

THE JOINT PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY, MINISTRY OF HOUSING AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT (LORD HASTINGS)

No, my Lords. Discussions are proceeding between Manchester Corporation and the Lake District Planning Board about public access to Thirlmere and the surrounding land. I do not think Haweswater is being discussed.

LORD WAKEFIELD OF KENDAL

My Lords, while thanking my noble friend for that reply, may I ask him whether he is aware that these discussions have been going on for several years now; and that when the National Parks were created they were created not only to preserve amenity but also to encourage recreational facilities? Cannot the Government do something to ensure that the intentions behind the Act which created the National Parks are implemented in the case of Manchester, which is a great public landowner in the Lake District National Park?

LORD HASTINGS

My Lords, the conversations have been going on since the publication of the Jellicoe Report—it was one of their terms of reference to look into this point—so I do not know that it is true to say they have been going on for years. Of course, this is a matter for negotiation between the Planning Board and the Manchester Corporation. Incidentally, of the 12,000 acres owned by Manchester in this area, no fewer than 7,800 already have open access to the public.

LORD LINDGREN

My Lords in considering the question of unrestricted public access to the Lakes, will the Minister also consider how far public rights are subservient to private rights; how far private rights to operate steamships and to sell other recreational facilities to the public are inconsistent with the policy of free access; and whether private operators should now be brought under public control?

LORD HASTINGS

All these matters are dealt with in the National Parks Act, and it is a matter for negotiation between the Planning Board and the owners of the land. Otherwise, I am afraid the noble Lord's supplementary question goes far beyond the Question put down by my noble friend behind me.

LORD LINDGREN

But surely, my Lords, the first question is to ensure adequate public water supply for Manchester and other areas in Lancashire.

LORD HASTINGS

I do not dissent from that.

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