§ 2.34 p.m.
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are aware that the Trading Representations (Disabled Persons) Act, 1958, has not prevented a considerable increase in the activities of door-to-door salesmen selling goods allegedly, and in most cases falsely, declared to be made or packed by the blind; and what action Her Majesty's Government will take to prevent this exploitation of blind persons and of the charitable public.]
§ THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR EDUCATION AND SCIENCE (LORD NEWTON)My Lords, information is not available to show whether or not these activities have increased. On the other hand, the number of complaints to the Ministry of Labour in recent years about traders registered under the Act has not increased. Certain suggestions have been made for amending legislation, and these are under consideration by my right honourable friend's National Advisory Council on the Employment of the Disabled.
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for that encouraging reply, may I ask whether he is aware that all over the country newspapers carry stories of the exploitation complained of in the Question, with headlines such as "Salesmen profit at the expense of the blind" and "Beware these salesmen"; that the National League of the Blind has evidence that salesmen who exploit blind workers in this way are earning £30 a week, compared with the £9 84 which the blind workers get, including a considerable amount of augmentation? When, as a Private Member in another place, I introduced this Act, with Government support, Amendments had to be made which left this gap. Can the noble Lord say any more about when it is hoped that the Government may come forward with these proposals to strengthen present legislation?
§ LORD NEWTONMy Lords, I am afraid I cannot say what will be the outcome of the consideration which is going on. If the noble Lord, or anyone else, has evidence of undesirable activities by these traders, my right honourable friend will be glad to have it.
§ LORD FRASER OF LONSDALEMy Lords, while congratulating the noble Lord opposite, and his honourable friend Mr. Evans of the other place, on having introduced the Act which is referred to in his Question, and while noting that he himself now thinks that it is inadequate, may I ask Her Majesty's Government whether they believe that it is, in fact, inadequate—although not, perhaps, so bad as the noble Lord makes out? Not all sales at houses are phoney, but a great many are, and the Act wants strengthening. Can the Government hold out some hope that, if not in this Parliament, at any rate they will put it on the books so that a new Parliament will see it there and do something about it?
§ LORD NEWTONMy Lords, I take note of what my noble friend has said, and, of course, on a matter of this kind his views naturally deserve most careful consideration, and they will get it. I am afraid that I cannot tell him, or your Lordships, what is likely to be the outcome of the consideration which my right honourable friend's Advisory Council is now giving to the matter.
§ BARONESS SWANBOROUGHMy Lords, while considering this matter. can Her Majesty's Government also look into the fact that a great number of disabled ex-Servicemen representatives call at the door, things are bought in all good faith at a very high price, and they are then found not to represent the people whom they say they are representing? I have a good deal of experience of this in rural areas. Therefore, I think the two things ought to be considered at the same time.
§ LORD NEWTONMy Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness for her suggestion.
§ LORD FRASER OF LONSDALEMy Lords, is it not normally the case that these salesmen do in fact represent factories which employ disabled persons or blind persons and, to that extent, the representation is genuine, but that there are not many blind persons or disabled persons in the factory—perhaps only half a dozen—and therefore the truth is only a token in the representation? What is required is amending legislation to insist that, where a factory states that it employs disabled or blind workers, it does in fact employ enough of them to make the representation genuine.
§ LORD NEWTONThe suggestions for amending legislation which are being considered relate to the tightening up of the requirement for registration, which is what I think my noble friend has in mind.
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, may I welcome the strictures which have been passed on my work by the noble Lord, Lord Fraser of Lonsdale, and plead in aid that one has to get what one can, not necessarily what one knows is best. That is why the present Act has defects. I am most grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Newton, for his kind offer to look at these cases, and I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Swanborough, for pointing out that when people sell something worth only 2d. for 1s, all the disabled are thereby exploited.
§ LORD STONHAMI put it as a question.