§ 2.35 p.m.
§ LORD WAKEFIELD OF KENDALMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether consideration will be given to raising the age from 16 to 19 for obtaining a licence to ride a two-wheeled motor vehicle where such a motor vehicle has power in excess of 250 c.c., or some lower appropriate figure.]
§ THE PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY, MINISTRY OF TRANSPORT (LORD CHESHAM)My Lords, Her Majesty's Government recognise that the accident rate is likely to be much higher when inexperienced motor cyclists ride heavy machines, and for this reason the Road Traffic (Driving of Motor Cycles) Act, 1960, already restricts riders to machines not exceeding 250 c.c. until they have passed the driving test. But 2 the rider who has passed his test has shown that he has sufficient knowledge and experience to control a two-wheeler in normal traffic conditions, and we do not think at present that there is any need for imposing such restrictions on qualified riders under the age of 19.
§ LORD WAKEFIELD OF KENDALMy Lords, while thanking my noble friend for that reply, may I ask whether he is aware that it will cause disappointment in many circles where it is believed it is desirable for a young person to obtain adequate road experience on lower-powered vehicles before he is allowed to control what is a very lethal weapon—namely, a 500 c.c. motor-cycle that travels at 100 m.p.h., on which he can be a great danger, not only to himself, but to other members of the public? Will not Her Majesty's Government have a further look at this in order to try to reduce road accidents?
§ LORD CHESHAMMy Lords, I need hardly say that I am far from being out of sympathy with what my noble friend has said. If I may extend the Answer a little, there are two things I would say. The figures show that the age group from 16 to 18 is incurring an increased percentage of accidents, while that of the 19-year-olds is static. Other figures show that the number of machines over 250 c.c. belonging to all age groups is diminishing quite considerably, and over the last five years has done so by about 35 per cent. What I think we should consider is whether we should not now take a fresh look at all the statistics and 3 factors affecting younger riders, because it is by no means clear whether the size of the machine or something else is the factor which is causing these accidents. I think we should consider having another look to try to find out what the factor really is.
§ LORD WAKEFIELD OF KENDALMy Lords, I thank my noble friend for that further reply. Is it possible for the figures he already has in his possession to be published? It might be helpful, if it is possible, to have the figures to which he has referred published in detail, although it may not be convenient to give the details at this moment in the House.
§ LORD CHESHAMMy Lords, I think perhaps, with your Lordships' leave, I might put them in the OFFICIAL REPORT.
§ LORD LUCAS OF CHILWORTHMy Lords, will the noble Lord also include figures which show whether the motorcycle population as a whole is rising or falling? Are the registrations of motorcycles going up or down?
§ LORD CHESHAMMy Lords, I have not that figure with me. I do not know whether it will be possible to include it, but I will try to do so.
§ LORD BOSSOMMy Lords, is it not a fact that in every one of these accidents involving people between 16 and 19 the drivers have already passed a test and hold a licence? Are the Government, therefore, not justified in giving this matter a lot more consideration in order to save the drivers' lives as well as those of other people?
§ LORD CHESHAMMy Lords, from what I know, I do not think it is a fact. I think that quite a high proportion of these accidents occur to learner riders on smaller machines. The figures will include scooter drivers, and the vast majority of scooters are in any event the smaller type of machine.
THE EARL OF ARRANMy Lords, while I welcome Her Majesty's Government's proposal to look at the matter again generally—this question is something that I have raised twice before in your Lordships' House—is not this the simple statistical position: some 40 per cent. of those killed or seriously injured on the roads 4 on two-wheeled vehicles are between the ages of 16 and 19?
§ LORD CHESHAMMy Lords, it is possible to work out percentages by relating one selected figure to another, but I would say that the figures I have here do not seem to produce such a percentage as my noble friend suggests.
§ LORD MORRISON OF LAMBETHMy Lords, may we take it from the Parliamentary Secretary's reply that it is the settled policy of the Ministry of Transport to stimulate as many mechanically driven motor vehicles of all sorts on the road as possible?
§ LORD CHESHAMMy Lords, the noble Lord may take anything he likes from my remarks, but he will be isolated in his interpretation of what I said.
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, can the noble Lord say whether, in his Department's examination of this matter, they will take any note of the tremendous noise that these big motor-cycles make? Does he not think that this is not only a terrifying thing, but possibly a factor contributing to accidents?
§ LORD CHESHAMMy Lords, if there was any reason for thinking that that might be so, it would doubtless be included in any investigation that takes place. I can only say that I should want to think about this. I do not at the moment see the connection; but there might be one.
THE EARL OF ARRANMy Lords, stung by my noble friend's suggestion that my figures are not accurate, may I point out—
§ LORD CHESHAMMy Lords, may I say that I think I owe a modest apology to the noble Earl, because I inadvertently looked at the figures for scooter riders. For motor-cycle riders the figure I have is in fact 38 per cent.
§ LORD AIREDALEMy Lords, is there not something to be said for putting into a separate class the faster and most powerful vehicles of all kinds, whether they have two wheels or four, or for that matter even three, and saying that people shall not drive those vehicles unless they have passed the test on such a vehicle or held an ordinary licence for a certain period of time?
§ LORD CHESHAMMy Lords, there might be, but I think it is stretching the original Question somewhat.
§ Fatal and serious casualties among scooter riders and motor cyclists in the years 1959–1963 were as follows:
| SCOOTER RIDERS (PROBABLY ALL MACHINES WERE UNDER 250 c.c.s) | |||||
| Year | 16–18 | 19 | Total for all ages | 16–18 percentage of total for all ages | 19 as percentage of total for all ages |
| 1959 … | 451 | 257 | 4,168 | 11 | 6 |
| 1960 … | 756 | 302 | 5,088 | 17 | 6 |
| 1961 … | 960 | 325 | 5,317 | 18 | 6 |
| 1962 … | 1,082 | 353 | 5,496 | 20 | 6 |
| 1963 … | 1,351 | 369 | 5,215 | 26 | 7 |
| MOTOR CYCLES—MACHINES RANGING FROM 50 c.c.s TO OVER 500 c.c.s | |||||
| Year | 16–18 | 19 | Total for all ages | 16–18 percentage of total for all ages | 19 as percentage of total for all ages |
| 1959 … | 3,955 | 1,769 | 18,185 | 22 | 10 |
| 1960 … | 4,554 | 1,565 | 17,464 | 26 | 9 |
| 1961 … | 4,871 | 1,505 | 16,065 | 30 | 9 |
| 1962 … | 4,883 | 1,460 | 14,444 | 34 | 10 |
| 1963 … | 5,356 | 1,531 | 13,954 | 38 | 11 |
§ Total registrations of motor cycles and scooters under 250 c.c. in 1963 were 971,000 as compared with 838,000 in 1959. Total registrations of motor cycles over 250 c.c. in 1963 were 229,000 as compared with 337,000 in 1959. Total registrations of motor cycles and scooters in 1963 were 1,200,000.