THE INDUSTRIAL INJURIES FUND (Hansard, 18 June 1964)

§ LORD TAYLOR
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

§ THE MINISTER OF STATE, BOARD OF TRADE (LORD DRUMALBYN)
My Lords, the latest firm figures are those for the financial year 1962–63, which were published in the annual Fund Accounts as a House of Commons Paper in April; but the noble Lord may prefer to have estimated figures for periods after the benefit and contribution increases made last year. The income of the Industrial Injuries Fund in the current financial year is estimated at about £96 million and its expenditure at about £83 million. The corresponding estimated figures for the next financial year, 1965–66, are about £97 million for income and £85 million for expenditure.

§ LORD TAYLOR
My Lords, from the figures that the noble Lord has given, there is a balance of about £12 million a year. Is there any chance of any part of this £12 million a year being used to prevent industrial injury, or to assist in research in connection with industrial injuries or in the development of industrial health laboratory services?

§ LORD DRUMALBYN
My Lords, as the noble Lord knows, the question of what research should be undertaken into industrial accidents and diseases, and how it should be financed, is a separate matter, and perhaps the noble Lord will put down a Question on it. As he is aware, the policy has been, as this is a funded scheme, that surpluses should build up over a period of years, so that when the 1287 numbers of beneficiaries reach roughly stability, the contribution income of the fund, together with the income from investments, will be sufficient to meet the outgoings.

§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILL
My Lords, in view of the surplus income, would not the noble Lord agree that the time has come to review the Schedule of Industrial Diseases with a view to compensating some people—for instance, those with chronic bronchitis where it can be related to industry?

§ LORD DRUMALBYN
My Lords, as the noble Lady knows, the question of which industrial diseases should be scheduled is constantly under consideration. It is not a question of a new review taking place.

§ LORD TAYLOR
My Lords, I am not clear from the Answer exactly how this Fund will work. Are we to build up such an enormous surplus that we shall not have to make any more contributions? Is that what the Government have in mind?

§ LORD DRUMALBYN
No, my Lords. The idea is that it should be possible to build up the Fund to the point where, when the numbers of beneficiaries reach more or less a stable level, outgoings can be met without increasing contributions to the Fund. This is the objective, and this is what is being done at the present time.

§ LORD TAYLOR
My Lords, I am sorry to be still mystified. Why is it anticipated that the number of recipients of benefit will grow steadily? Surely it is better to prevent industrial injuries and diseases and have a declining number of beneficiaries in the scheme. Is there any evidence that the numbers are still growing and will continue to grow?

§ LORD DRUMALBYN
My Lords, not only are the numbers growing, but also the liabilities in respect of those people who receive benefit are growing, with un-employability supplement and the other provision for the various contingencies that arise very often as the injury makes it more difficult for a man to obtain employment.

§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILL
My Lords, this is an important question. If the Fund has a surplus, why cannot it 1288 be distributed in the form of discretionary allowances? Think of the tragic cases of, say, partial pneumoconiosis. There are these cases, and yet the noble Lord says there is this surplus. This seems to me to be wrong. I think it should be distributed in the form of discretionary allowances. He has not, of course, committed himself. Next year he could use the surplus in a different way.

§ LORD DRUMALBYN
My Lords, as the noble Lady will know, last year we increased the liabilities of the Fund very much, not only by increasing benefits under the Industrial Injuries Act, but also by increasing the supplements to those who receive benefits under the Workmen's Compensation Acts. The balance is required in order to meet the funding requirements of the Act. Another way in which the matter has been dealt with is that on one occasion in 1961 the benefits were increased without an increase in contributions.

§ LORD TAYLOR
My Lords, am I not right in thinking that there is a fund of many hundreds of millions of pounds now in reserve; that a grant has been made on one occasion for research purposes from this Fund, and that it amounted to less than £100,000—a few thousand pounds only?

§ LORD DRUMALBYN
My Lords, I think the noble Lord is right in thinking that grants have been made. The actual balance held at the end of 1962–63 was just over £300 million.

§ LORD TAYLOR
My Lords, is this not a really extraordinary state of affairs? This money is being paid in by all of us if we are at work, and has accumulated to the extent of £300 million-odd, and yet we cannot have any proper industrial health service, industrial hygiene laboratories and the preventive services in industry to prevent the injuries for which this money is accumulating.

§ LORD DRUMALBYN
My Lords, as the noble Lord will know, it would not be possible to pay out these funds without legislation to authorise their being paid out. As I say, if you have a funded scheme, which is quite different from the principle on which the National 1289 Insurance scheme is operated, it is necessary to cover the liabilities in prospect for the future, as well as the current liabilities.

§ LORD BOOTHBY
My Lords, will the noble Lord bring in the necessary legislation before the Summer Recess?

§ LORD DRUMALBYN
My Lords, I am afraid I can hold out to my noble friend no hope of any such thing.

§ LORD TAYLOR
My Lords, is the noble Lord really right in thinking that he needs legislation, since he has already made one grant from the fund?

§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILL
Discretionary allowances is the answer.

§ LORD DRUMALBYN
My Lords, there is a section (I think it is Section 73) which allows only certain payments to be made.