HL Deb 10 June 1964 vol 258 cc886-8

2.59 p.m.

LORD STONHAM

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the second Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, for the purposes of the Disabled Persons Employment Acts, they will include mentally retarded persons in Section 2 of the Disabled Persons Register, and whether they will undertake research with the object of deter mining the types of employment which the mentally handicapped can perform as ably as normal persons.]

THE MINISTER OF STATE, HOME OFFICE (LORD DERWENT)

My Lords, mentally retarded persons are eligible for registration as disabled persons tinder the Disabled Persons (Employment) Act, 1944, if they satisfy the usual conditions. Those who are unemployed are included in Section I or Section II of the register of unemployed disabled persons, according to whether they are considered to be suitable for ordinary employment or unlikely, because of the severity of their handicap, to obtain employment except under sheltered conditions. Much is already known about the types of occupations which are suitable for the mentally subnormal. Different types of work are being tried out in local health authority adult training centres and in hospitals for the subnormal, and a number of studies of services for the subnormal are expected to provide further relevant information.

LORD STONHAM

My Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for that reply, may I ask whether he would be kind enough, since so much apparently is known, to publish in the OFFICIAL REPORT the types of occupation which are considered most suitable for the mentally retarded? Also, is the noble Lord aware that new experimental workshops recently set up have proved that most of the 200,000 severely retarded people can be trained to undertake useful occupations and do them quite well, even in open industry? Does he not agree, therefore, that this matter should be looked into with the Ministry of Labour to see whether the present facilities can be improved?

LORD DERWENT

My Lords, I think, without putting it into the OFFICIAL REPORT, that I can quite briefly give the answer that the noble Lord wants. A great number of the mentally retarded are in ordinary occupations and prefer to be in them. That, I think, really answers the noble Lord's main Question. As he knows, local authority training centres are provided for those mentally subnormal people who arc able to live outside hospital but are outside the employment field. The work done in these centres is now moving away from the traditional occupations, such as rug and basket making, towards newer trades, such as concrete work, plastic-welding and electrical component assembly; and we hope that it will be found possible for these people to carry on these more normal occupations and to be trained in them on a larger scale. But, of course, we are now waiting for further information on the experiments that are going on.

LORD STONHAM

My Lords, the whole purport of my Question was directed, as I believe the noble Lord now understands, to the certainty of being able to employ far more mentally retarded people in open as compared with sheltered industry.

THE EARL OF ARRAN

My Lords, in supporting the noble Lord, and at the risk of committing tautology, may I ask whether Her Majesty's Government will not agree that, in view of the considerable success achieved inside mental hospitals for making employable the seemingly unemployable, the research suggested by the noble Lord is of high importance, inasmuch as it will enable the mentally handicapped outside the mental hospitals —and, of course, the great majority are outside the mental hospitals—to find jobs and, at the same time, a new self-respect?

LORD DERWENT

My Lords, the noble Earl is not quite right; there are quite a number of mentally retarded people in hospital who are allowed out to work, and they are to be encouraged, in so far as possible, to do so.

THE EARL OF ARRAN

My Lords, I think the noble Lord did not quite understand me. I was saying that inside the mental hospitals the position is highly satisfactory. I was speaking about the people outside, those who are not actually in the hospitals, and I think the noble Lord, Lord Stonham will agree with me there.

LORD DERWENT

My Lords, I am sorry, but I still do not understand the noble Earl's question.

BARONESS SUMMERSKILL

My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether he receives annual reports from enlightened employers who have factories and workshops in the vicinity of mental hospitals and who do employ mentally retarded people?

LORD DERWENT

My Lords, I do not know what sort of annual report the noble Lady is talking about.

BARONESS SUMMERSKILL

My Lords, the Question asked for information; and as there is already a great amount of material which could be collated by his Department, and as in the vicinity of large mental hospitals there are enlightened employers who say to a supervisor: "We are prepared to give suitably qualified people work"—and there is so much of that being done now—I wondered whether his Department ask these employers for a report, so that the Department may know precisely how these people are doing, whether they are doing well or are failing to come up to scratch?

LORD DERWENT

My Lords, I see the point and, if I may, as this is not my own Department, I will find out about that and let the noble Lady know.

LORD STONHAM

My Lords, will the noble Lord also look into the point that while only some 50,000 of the mentally retarded people are in institutional care, 200,000 are hidden away in their homes; and it is the 200,000 about whom I am concerned and for whom I wish to have training and employment provided?