HL Deb 20 July 1964 vol 260 cc442-5

2.47 p.m.

LORD BOSSOM

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether the new electric light standards now being erected along Birdcage Walk are supposed to be more attractive than the other standards that are around Green Park and more in harmony with the surroundings, and, if not, why these new ones are being installed.]

LORD HASTINGS

My Lords, the old lighting of Birdcage Walk fell well below the standard of illumination required for such a busy road, and its inadequacy was a contributory cause of two recent serious accidents, one of them fatal. My right honourable friend the Minister of Public Building and Works has accordingly decided to improve the lighting in the interests of safety. This could not be done by converting the existing standards, as they were not tall enough for the purpose and the lanterns were not large enough to house sufficiently powerful electric bulbs. The new lighting standards are of the same pattern as those in Parliament Square and are designed to harmonise with their surroundings. But in view of the charm and interest of the old standards my right honourable friend has decided to retain them in addition to the new standards.

LORD BOSSOM

My Lords, while thanking my noble friend for that unusual Answer, is he not aware that it would be a perfectly simple mechanical matter to put a longer standard on the old existing lamp standard? What they are doing is in bad taste. Would it not be practicable for the Government to set up a small committee of half a dozen people who recognise good taste, and refer a matter like this to them, rather than waste money, as they are doing now?

LORD HASTINGS

My Lords, I can but convey my noble friend's comments to my right honourable friend the Minister.

LORD SILKIN

My Lords, is the suggestion that the existing lights are being retained merely for their charm and interest, and not for the illumination they will provide? It seems an extra-ordinary doctrine.

THE EARL ALEXANDER OF HILLS-BOROUGH

What is the answer?

LORD HASTINGS

My Lords, I do not think that really any answer is called for. As I said, the existing illumination is unsatisfactory, and that is why new lights are being provided.

LORD SILKIN

The new lights are to provide the illumination, and the old ones to provide the charm and interest. That seems rather extraordinary.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR (LORD DILHORNE)

My Lords, it is the fact that some people admire the old standards. They think that they are a feature of Birdcage Walk to which we are accustomed, and that it would be a pity to remove them.

BARONESS SUMMERSKILL

My Lords, is it not possible to combine charm and light?

LORD HASTINGS

This pattern is the same as exists in Parliament Square. That pattern was architect-designed, and there was no complaint at that time—in fact I do not believe there has been complaint about Parliament Square at any time. These standards are of special design and patented, I believe, by the Westminster City Council, who use them only in special circumstances and have given permission for them to be used in this case. A great deal of trouble has been taken over them, and if they are examined closely (the standards at present in Birdcage Walk are not yet finished, of course, but one can look at those in Parliament Square for a proper comparison) I suggest that they are perhaps not in such bad taste as has been indicated.

BARONESS HORSBRUGH

My Lords, are these old standards to be lit, or are they to be there merely as monuments?

LORD HASTINGS

I am afraid that I cannot give a straight answer to that question: I do not know whether they will be lit or not. I imagine not.

EARL ALEXANDER OF HILLS-BOROUGH

My Lords, does not this seem to be following the same kind of spendthrift policy the Government have adopted over the past thirteen years? This is why our Budget now is £7,000 million instead of £4,000 million.

LORD HASTINGS

It is a question of the standard of lighting and safety for pedestrians.

LORD MERRIVALE

My Lords, what was the past illumination of these individual standards, and what will be the future illumination of these other standards?

LORD HASTINGS

If the noble Lord is talking about kilowatt power, I am afraid that I cannot give the technical answer offhand; but they would be lighting standards suitable for the main road which Birdcage Walk has become. They are the same standards as obtain at each end of Birdcage Walk.

LORD MERRIVALE

The noble Lord said that the illumination with the old standards was insufficient, and I presumed that the number of lumens was insufficient. I was wondering what was the new standard of illumination required to light up the road satisfactorily.