HL Deb 09 July 1964 vol 259 cc1089-92

3.8 p.m.

BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRY

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they have reached a final decision not to establish a Sports Development Council, and, if so, what administrative machinery is proposed instead.]

THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR EDUCATION AND SCIENCE (LORD NEWTON)

Yes, my Lords. My right honourable friend the Lord President of the Council co-ordinates the activities of all Government Departments having a responsibility in sport and physical recreation. The Government consider this machinery to be appropriate and adequate, but they would of course modify it if at any time the need arose.

BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRY

My Lords, while realising that the noble Lord who has answered is not responsible for the unsatisfactory content of that reply, and appreciating that he cannot help us further on that particular point, I should like to ask him a supplementary question relating to a different aspect of the same problem. I wonder whether, in his brief giving information for possible supplementary questions to-day, he has any information dealing with the apparent discourtesy of the Secretary of State. Is he aware that in another place on June 22, speaking in a debate, the Minister made a completely unauthorised statement concerning the Central Council of Physical Recreation and the proposed establishment of a Sports Development Council? Is he further aware that on June 26 The Times published a letter from me on this subject, and that the Minister has not even had the manners to write to me personally about it—

SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS

Order, order!

BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRY

I think I am the aggrieved one—nor to withdraw or even to regret what he said?

LORD NEWTON

My Lords, I think the noble Lady is referring to my right honourable friend the Lord President of the Council.

BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRY

My Lords, the noble Lord is right.

LORD NEWTON

My Lords, there are several Secretaries of State, and it is the Lord President of the Council who is responsible for sport. What he actually said in another place on June 22, in the context referred to by the noble Lady, was this [OFFICIAL REPORT, Commons, Vol. 697 (No. 126), col. 97]: I think that if honourable Members opposite pursue the matter they will find, for instance, that the C.C.P.R. which originally sponsored the suggestion has, like myself, been rather steadily moving away from it, after having been initially attracted by it. That seems to be a perfectly legitimate expression of opinion. The noble Lady has expressed a contrary opinion, and she is entitled to her opinion; but it is obviously a matter about which opinions may differ.

BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRY

My Lords, obviously the noble Lord is entitled to his opinion, but is he aware that, as I myself hold several positions in the Central Council of Physical Recreation on an honorary basis, and as the Council has told me that the Minister had no authority for making that statement, which is incorrect, would he not agree that it is customary in either House, when a Minister has made an unauthorised statement about an organisation or an individual that he should substantiate it, withdraw, or at least apologise?

LORD NEWTON

My Lords, I do not know what this has to do with the Question on the Order Paper, but I suspect that, if your Lordships will study the words that I quoted from the speech of my right honourable friend, you will conclude from them that he was not making an official announcement, but was merely expressing an opinion upon a matter about which anybody is entitled to express an opinion.

BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRY

My Lords, I am sorry to differ from the noble Lord. May I ask him whether, in order to clear this matter up, he will be kind enough to refer what has been said to-day to his noble friend, in the hope that at any rate I may have the courtesy of a reply?

A NOBLE LORD: His friend is no longer noble.

BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRY

As his friend is no longer noble, may I ask him to refer the matter to the Secretary of State for Education and Science?

LORD CONESFORD

My Lords, is it not a fact that, if any statement of doubtful accuracy has been made in another place, it is for some Member of that other place to raise the matter and not for a noble Lord in this House?

BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRY

My Lords, as I cannot go any further on this, may I ask the Minister whether, if a member who belongs to an association which has been incorrectly represented writes a letter to a paper—I would say "of the standing of The Times", if the other papers would not mind—it is not customary and polite for the Minister concerned either to inform the member that he was wrong or to substantiate his statement?

LORD CARRINGTON

My Lords, I think your Lordships have given the noble Baroness a good deal of latitude on this question. After the great rebuke which was administered to me by the noble Lord, Lord Morrison of Lambeth, the other day about intervening, I hesitate to intervene on this matter. However, if the noble Lady wanted to raise this subject she could have put down a Question about it. She did not; she put down a Question about an entirely different subject. I think she has had the courtesy of your Lordships' House, and ought not to pursue the matter any further.

BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRY

My Lords, I have had the courtesy of the House, but I think the noble Lord the Leader of the House was mistaken when he said that my question did not relate to the original Question. The Question relates to the establishment of a Sports Development Council, which is related.